Welcome to The Best Dam Podcast! In this episode, Jill Lagan, CEO of the Boulder City Chamber of Commerce, turns the spotlight on her own business coach and mentor, Howard Fox. Listeners will hear the story of how a well-timed cold call from Howard sparked the launch of this very podcast and helped Jill overcome her imposter syndrome to become a confident host.

Together, they delve into the power of podcasting for community promotion, the evolution of their podcasting journey—from microphone selection to a mobile studio—and how their partnership has elevated the mission of the Boulder City Chamber. Howard also shares insights from his career in executive coaching and the importance of blending nature with personal development. Expect thoughtful conversation, personal stories, and actionable advice for business leaders, podcasters, and anyone looking to communicate their vision more powerfully.

Join us as we explore the stories behind Boulder City’s community spirit, the art of effective coaching, and why podcasting is an essential tool for any chamber or destination looking to amplify its voice.

DISCUSSION

1. Introduction & Background

• Jill introduces the podcast and the focus on Boulder City 00:16
• Jill Lagan jokingly frames this episode as a "test" of what she has learned from her coach, Howard 00:45
• Howard comments on Jill’s imposter syndrome and praises her exceptional podcasting accomplishments 01:07

2. Origin Story: How Podcasting Began for Jill

• Howard recounts how he and Ryan from Podcast Centric reached out to chambers about podcasting 01:42
• The initial contact with the Boulder City Chamber and how quickly it resonated with Jill 02:32
• Jill reflects on inspiration from podcasting peers and the imposter syndrome watching others succeed 02:45
• Technical and mental hurdles to starting a podcast 03:20
• Howard’s support and the providence of the timing 03:44

3. Growth and Evolution of the Podcast

• Progression from basic podcasting equipment to a mobile podcast studio 04:52
• Jill describes how scheduling and production have changed due to increased interest 04:31
• Commentary on the value this brings to the community and Boulder City 05:15

4. Howard's Relocation to Boulder City

• Decision to move to Boulder City, influenced in part by working with Jill and the chamber 05:27
• Settling into the community 06:25

5. Howard’s Professional Work: Coaching & Podcasting

• Overview of Fox Coaching, Podcast Centric, and roles 06:29
• Description of both of Howard's podcasts: Outdoor Adventure Series and Success Insight Podcast 07:04
• The origin of Success Insight Podcast
• Use of interviews to generate LinkedIn articles 07:26
• Outdoor Adventure Series evolution after moving to Nevada 08:28
• Podcasting as a platform for destination marketing and chambers 09:08
• The business model: working with chambers to help them tell their story through podcasting 09:50

6. How Podcast Centric Works with Chambers

• Structure of the relationship: Jill as the first to sign up, turning over production to Podcast Centric 10:40
• Value for chambers: helping meet their mission, promoting businesses and community events 13:02
• Diversity of podcast guests: not just businesses, but also authors, youth, and artists 13:13
• Podcasting enhances leadership and interviewer skills 13:40

7. Podcasting Production & Opportunities

• Importance of content planning, leveraging local events 15:03
• Expanding to video content and Jill’s initial reluctance 15:35
• Emphasizing ongoing learning and pushing creative boundaries 16:27
• The evolving nature of the podcast and marketing outreach 16:42

8. Howard’s Business Coaching Practice

• History of coaching since 2008 and transition from IT consulting 17:06
• Three core areas of work:
• Executive coaching (preparation for promotion, team effectiveness, resistance to strategy, leadership skills) 18:18
• Career mobility (helping organizations manage layoffs, re-skilling, internal transfers) 19:13
• Career transition (outplacement: resumes, branding, interviews, job search strategy) 19:43
• The role of LinkedIn for clients and leaders as both a resume and networking tool 21:00

9. Coaching Methodology and Value

• The function of coaching vs mentoring, consulting, and advising 22:39
• Explanation using the sailing analogy: client as skipper, coach as crewmate 23:09
• The importance of dialogue for clients’ self-discovery 23:41
• The necessity of the human element in coaching (contrasted with AI) 24:00

10. Howard Fox’s Personal Background & Influences

• First job at a diner and learning lifelong skills from a mentor 25:06
• Culinary influences and learning to make spanakopita 25:47
• Starting in photography at the diner, leading to event photography 26:50
• Jill shares her parallel start in event business through photography 27:40
• The role of serendipity in life and career path 28:16

11. Favorite Books and Thought Leadership

• Howard Fox’s leadership book recommendations:
• "Turn the Ship Around" by David Marquet 29:15
• "The Leadership Challenge" by Kouzes and Posner
• "The Five Dysfunctions of a Team" by Patrick Lencioni
• "What Got You Here Won’t Get You There" by Marshall Goldsmith, with anecdote about meeting Goldsmith 30:50
• Introduction to outdoor-focused coaching 31:35

12. Outdoor Coaching and Blue-Green Psychology

• The concept: integrating coaching with nature for mindfulness, reflection, and personal growth 31:38
• Examples of outdoor coaching sessions ("walk talks") and locations 33:01
• Review of the book "Outdoor Coaching: A Practical Guide..." 38:51
• Benefits of balance between technology and nature, both for leaders and teams 38:44

13. Life Lessons and Parental Influence

• Howard Fox reflects on lessons from his parents, especially around the Jewish ethic of helping others and supporting the underdog 40:17
• Proverbs quote about always trying to make a difference 40:49
• Jill acknowledges the impact that these values have had through Howard coaching 41:13

14. Closing Thoughts and Endorsement

• Jill endorses Podcast Centric and offers to serve as a reference for other chambers or DMOs 41:29
• Howard Fox encourages chambers and DMOs to consider podcasting or being podcast guests 42:30
• Outro and information about where to find The Best Dam Podcast 42:55

LEARN MORE

To learn more about Howard Fox and his execuive coaching services, visit the Fox Coaching website at https://foxcoaching.com/ or Podcast Centric at https://podcastcentric.com/

Howard's LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/foxcoachinginc/

To learn more about the Boulder City Chamber of Commerce, visit their website at https://www.bouldercitychamber.com/

Jill's LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jill-rowland-lagan-157480b/

KEYWORDS

Jill Lagan, Howard Fox, Business Coaching, Coaching Outdoors, Executive Coaching, Podcast Centric, Boulder City, Boulder City Chamber of Commerce, The Best Dam Podcast

#JillLagan #HowardFox #BusinessCoaching #CoachingOutdoors #ExecutiveCoachig PodcastCentric #BoulderCity #TheBestDamPodcast

Podcast Transcript 

Jill: Okay, kids and listeners, today I am having a test. This is, a test of how well I have learned over the last couple of years from my business coach, Mr. Howard Fox, and he is also the one that taught me how to podcast. So thank you very much. I hope I pass my test today, Howard.

Howard: Jill, it is wonderful to be here and be on the other side of the table on the other side of the mic with you. But we do have to work on your imposter syndrome. Because you are crushing it.

Jill: Thank you very much. That makes me feel a little better, but you are right, I totally suffer from imposter syndrome. I am just grateful to have had the experience to work with you.

You're a fabulous business coach. I know a couple other people that you are coach to, and they agree with me. And so thank you very much for your, support and your encouragement and all the wisdom you have provided. But thank you the most for introducing me, through a cold call, to podcasting.

Howard: Ah, yes.

Jill: Do you wanna share a little bit about our intro story?

Howard: Oh, my God, it was just like providence just happened and so Ryan and I, Ryan owns Podcast Centric and I am the podcast director. We had this grandiose idea of how to increase the number of podcast episodes we were doing, and I had started with a lot of outdoor-related podcasts when I moved from Chicago to Nevada.

And this idea of the organization that I belong to, the Outdoor Writers Association of America, we work with a lot of destinations, occasionally chambers of commerce. So we literally were emailing chambers and destinations about podcasting, and then Ryan had said, "You know, we just sent an email to the Boulder City Chamber of Commerce."

And I said, "Well, geez, Ryan, they're right down the street." 

Jill: Right. 

Howard: “Why don't I give them a call?" And literally, Jill, it was amazing. You said, "I am so glad you called. When can you come in, and let's talk about this?"

Jill: And that is absolutely the truth because I had been so talk about imposter syndrome, I had been watching some of my, peers.

The Las Vegas Chamber had just hired Mary Beth Seewald, and she was a, former anchor, so she knew the news world, and she was absolutely, a celebrity in my mind of what you could do as, in communication with chamber work. And then, Peter Guzman, he was the CEO of the Latin Chamber, and he also had his own podcast and radio show, and I'm like, "I wanna be like them when I grow up."

And, we're all the same age, but still, when I grow up. And so then you called, and I'm like, "Oh, my goodness, this is exactly what I have been thinking. In the back of my mind, I would love to do this, just didn't know how to get started, didn't know how to, set up the equipment." I mean, it was such an unknown.

I just felt like, no, it's not something I can do. And then you literally laid it in my lap and said, "Yes, you can do this. This is not that hard. I will be right, right there with you." And it was an easy yes for me. So I am so glad you guys really did reach out, and, yes, it could've been providence because I felt like it was, everything fell in right into place.

Howard: And Ryan and I I'm speaking for him right now and I will share this with him later when we, you know, talk is we are so grateful to be a part of this community that the Chamber of Commerce, and now officially for me, Boulder City, and seeing you say yes, and then helping you launch that podcast, and really, you are phenomenal.

Jill: And Oh, thank you 

Howard: And I will share that with anybody. You literally are crushing it, and when you see your reviews, whether it's on Google Reviews or Amazon or Apple, everybody comments on the information and the value that's being brought. And it's coming through because of the effort you're putting into this, and it's phenomenal.

Jill: Well, thank you. I will admit it's my favorite part of the job. I love doing it, and I can't wait for podcast days, and get so excited when people contact me and wanna be on, to the point now where I am we were only doing four a month, and trying to schedule those all on the same day. now we're kind of all over the place 'cause we just fit them in when we can.

Howard: Sure. 

Jill: Which the power of having a mobile podcast studio 

Howard: Yes

Jill: allows for that, 'cause we're right here on site. So, you know, we've grown from you and I setting this up from Amazon products sitting on my desk in my office to, being mobile with just being able to take our equipment and go to different places to now having the mobile studio, and I absolutely love it, other than the fact that we do have to turn the air off, and it's a little warm in here today,

Howard: It's gonna get toasty. Thank you for allowing me to be number one.

Jill: Yeah. That way we can at least, be able to still convey the information, introduce people to the community, so much so that we introduced you to Boulder City. You fell in love with it and moved here.

Howard: It's funny. when I'm doing my outdoor podcast, especially with other destinations and chambers, I'm half-heartedly joking. I'm always looking for my next place to live.

Jill: Yeah.

Howard: And on occasion, I will also share with the work we do with Boulder City and the chamber, and, you know, my client, Jill, CEO, always is asking me, "When are you gonna move to Boulder City?"

And as it happens, circumstances, unexpected, and here I am now since, God, end of May as a resident of Boulder City. I love it. The dogs next door, not so much. 

Jill: Oh, yeah. 

Howard: They do, they're yappers. But I just love being in this community, and if I didn't have to go anywhere, I wouldn't go anywhere, 'cause you have everything you need.

Jill: Yes, that's true. Isn't it the truth? I do wish you had, not moved in the middle of summer, but, you gotta do what you gotta do. Oh, my God. And it was unexpected, right?

Howard: Oh, my God.

Jill: That's been interesting.

Howard: So I'm still, navigating a human game of Tetris in my apartment, but it's getting there. I can see my floor now. Parts of it.

Jill: That's awesome. That is so great. Well, so, thank you so much for being here. 

Howard: Thank you. 

Jill: And so Howard Fox with Fox Coaching Incorporated and Podcast Centric. And explain to me a little bit more, we know, I know, 'cause I am interacting with you on a daily basis, but share with us a little bit more, not only about what it is you do and on your two shows, but then a little bit more about Podcast Centric's concept of working with chambers and helping them convey their message about all of their businesses.

It's such a phenomenal way to really share their message and meet the mission and the goal of each of those chambers. But Sure first of all, share a little bit more about your two podcasts.

Howard: Sure. Well, I host, the Outdoor Adventure Series, which is podcast number two. Number one was Success Insight Podcast, and I began that back when I lived in Chicago in 2019. It literally started from, I was working with a client to create content that we could turn into an article for his, LinkedIn account.

Jill: Oh.

Howard: So write LinkedIn articles, and just didn't know how to about, go about doing it. he had written a book before, and I said, there's a really easy way. Why don't I just interview you?"

And then my associate at the time, who was a journalist, would take the recording, turn that into a 500-word article for LinkedIn. I would then take the audio recording and turn that into the podcast episode.

Jill: Wow.

Howard: And literally, it was that idea. Now I'd had some experience broadcasting before, and I'd done interviews on Facebook, and I'd had a radio show. Which, not half as much fun as podcasting.

Jill: Really? 

Howard: But the idea of the podcast is I get to create and decide who I interview and what I do with it, and it turned into interviewing a lot of coaches and consultants, book authors. I've had my share of zombie apocalypse novels. Yeah. A lot of children's book authors. But then I had an opportunity to move out to Las Vegas from Chicago right at the start of COVID, which,

Jill: There's a story there.

Howard: There's a story there. However, I wanted to get out and explore, and the big reason why I wanted to move here is the desert, the dark skies, the access to Death Valley Joshua Tree, Mount Charleston. 

Jill: Ahwatukee. 

Howard: Ahwatukee.

Jill: Amazing

Howard: There was an event down in Ahwatukee this past weekend. I couldn't go, and I went 

Jill: Oh. 

Howard: But it's wonderful dark sky area.

Jill: Oh, my gosh, yes.

Howard: And as I was researching this whole genre of the outdoor space and how do you get prepared to do some of these things, like go car camping or take a photo of the Milky Way, I was introduced to the Outdoor Writers Association of America.

Jill: Oh, that's right.

Howard: The OWAA. Became a member, and literally I looked at that as a way to start a new podcast. I have an unlimited supply of guests. As I was going to those events, there were a lot of what are called destination marketing organizations.

Now, some communities, the chamber of commerce, the destination marketing organization, the, the economic development are all under this big umbrella.

Sometimes they're separate, but we had... I realized these destinations were prime targets. me I mean that in the nicest sort of way.

Jill: Yes. No, absolutely.

Howard: Prospects, that's a better word, for potential ways to make money doing podcasts.

Jill: Right.

Howard: So rather than relying on advertising and promotions, I could reach out to a destination or a chamber and offer to create a podcast series for them.

And so my niche is the chamber or the destination, doing multiple episodes that promote that community. The extension of that with Ryan and the masterminding that we do together is, why don't we basically create a business around you're interviewing the chambers and the destinations.

Why don't we develop a business model that we can go and help those communities promote their own work?

Jill: And do their own podcasts.

Howard: And do their own podcasts.

Jill: Yeah.

Howard: And so literally, as we launched this initiative, you were like number one.

Jill: Yay for me.

Howard: Yay for you. and so it's been great. I mean, I do a lot of interviews, a lot of series with destinations and chambers.

Getting them to understand the value of the podcast and why it's a way to promote the community, whether it's bringing people into the community to take advantage of the experiences tourism, the, the restaurants, the outdoor experiences. Perhaps they even wanna move to the community.

Jill: Yes.

Howard: 'Cause you, that's, you say something in your intro to Discover, Explore, and Unwind in Boulder City. You're looking for businesses to start, people to move here, and also for people to experience. And now you have the Adventure Center, so you're bringing all three. So you are the ideal client that we look for when it comes to promoting the podcast, and that's what we continue to seek out to do and figure out the right recipe.

I kind of equate our work together, Jill, is, I made this dish, it came out really, really well, and now we're just spending the rest of our time trying to replicate it- and get it just right.

Jill: And you didn't write down all of the, the ingredients. But now that we've got, a, a wonderful meal prepared we need to go back and create ways to make that mass producible and sustainable, right?

Howard: And sustainable.

Jill: Because it's not just to go into a community, tell them, "Okay, here's the equipment.

This is what you do. This is how you get started. These are the platforms that you get involved in."

Because all of that was an unknown to me. I needed all of that help. But I also, I really didn't have the time to be able to also edit and then promote, and then post it, and all of that.

So for me, the idea that all I have to do is literally find a guest, get them booked, do the interview, and then turn it over to you guys, and you do all the heavy lifting. It is so simple. It just puts the whole bow on the little package, hand delivers it, not only to the person that I did the interview with so that they can now use it as promo, but then it also allows me to get that posted out there, and it has really... you see the stats. I can share those stats with anybody who's interested. But it has allowed us to maximize our voice. Right? And so for me, it was just an absolute no-brainer.

Year after year, it has been an absolute no-brainer. It is a relationship that I have no intention on, stopping because it really, it meets the chamber's mission. It allows me to promote those individual businesses. They see that added value as being a member or an investor. And but then we also, we haven't only done that.

We've, like you said, we've had some really incredible, authors and artists. We'll have, interviewing some youth today that were the ones that did the stickers for the I Voted. Those little stickers you get when you vote. And so we've had a really interesting. And it's why it's my favorite.

I get to talk to so many different people about what it is that makes them tick or what it is that makes their business go or what gave them the idea or how they wrote the book. So there's so many interesting reasons and things that you learn about an individual and what they're doing to be successful that it makes you be a better leader as well as, just an interviewer, right?

Howard: In some ways, you are literally communicating to the business, to the resident, to the prospective visitor why Boulder City, because you're already sharing the value of what it means to come here. 'Cause I would imagine in some chambers people wanna know, why should I join the chamber?

What do they do?"

And you literally, through the work even before I came here, Boulder City is, has wonderful. You've got restaurants, you've got the antiques, you've got access to the Lake Mead, the River Mountain Loop Trail. You've got so much to offer, but now you're going above and beyond that to share why Boulder City, and people can see the value of, through these episodes, what you're doing.

And a lot of folks, the chambers, the destinations, it's still a hard lift for them to get around, you can do this. literally from my perspective, this production is the easiest thing to do. Okay? 

Jill: Oh, really? Yeah. Okay, good. All right, so let's cut your pay.

Howard: Let's cut my pay.

Jill: I'm teasing. Okay. No, you're worth every penny. I promise.

Howard: Okay, I would like to think so.

Jill: Yeah.

Howard: But my mom, may she rest in peace, would like to think so as well.

Jill: Yeah, exactly.

Howard: But you literally have a calendar up in your office with events that are going on from month to month And knowing that all these things are always opportunities for a future episode. Like the, the children with the stickers and the voting. The, as I was driving down here to get to the chamber office, you've got the utility boxes that I've been painting. Which is a project we still want to get kicked off. And also, it allows us to push the envelope a little bit, and not just be an audio podcast for you, but also to be a video plus audio podcast.

Jill: Yes.

Howard: So in some ways, again, Ryan and I are grateful because we get to work with you to push the envelope a little bit.

Jill: Right, which that has been something I pushed back on because I feared... first of all, it was nerve-wracking just doing the audio. And you put a microphone in front of you, you're like, "Oh, crud, somebody's listening," right?

And so you have to get over that, get a little more comfortable and a little more confident. And the idea of going to having a camera there, it makes everybody nervous, not only me, but the guest as well, right? So having to kind of get comfortable with that and be the next step, I need to jump into that more.

We need to just do it. And yes, you guys have helped me push that envelope a little more with being on site at different, venues. And we've been playing with it just a, a hint, but we definitely wanna take it to that level and be able to offer that as well. So 

Howard: Sure

Jill: Thank you. There's always room for growth. It's not like just 'cause you have a mic, all of a sudden you're done. You, there's always room for growth. There's more knowledge. There's more that we can learn about how to push this out, where to advertise it, where to get it out there. So, we have so much more to go. We just got started.

Howard: We are literally coming up with our best next move, and as a mentor of mine once said, we're building the airplane as we fly it.

Jill: Yes. I'm okay with that.

Howard: Yeah.

Jill: Don't crash my airplane, but...

Howard: No, we don't wanna do that.

Jill: All right. Well, let's go back to a little bit more about your coaching.

Howard: Sure. 

Jill: So talk about what it is that you do as a business coach. When would somebody seek out and find your services?

Howard: Okay. I began coaching back in 2008, which now starts to date me just a little bit. I'm a recovering IT business consultant. And I decided to go back into, leadership development and coach training.

And so I have three areas that I predominantly work on. One is the executive coaching, and so I work for a company that provides me my clients.

Jill: Oh, very good. 

Howard: Yeah. 

Jill: So they go out and they advertise that they will provide these services. They match you up to a coach. Yeah. And then once you get matched up, now you have that individual that you connect with, you set up appointments with.

And you mostly do it via Zoom. However, I do know you even have a local client as well.

Howard: Sure. So we do the Zoom. We do local. for me- Sales and marketing are not my natural go-tos. Mm-hmm. And I've had to learn that I need to do this.

However, I like the idea that there's consistency. I may not get paid. I mean, coaches, there are coaches out there making good money. Now, I may not get paid the most, but I know I'm getting clients.

And so from the executive coaching, and if you look at the logo, a lot of big name logos 

Jill: Yeah

Howard: that we coach. And so In my coaching hours per week, I only wanna coach at a good week, 15, 20 hours a week.

Jill: Okay.

Howard: Because then my podcast work takes up the other part. 

Jill: The other part, yeah.

Howard: The other part. But, so I get to coach executives. They're going through, preparing for a promotion, becoming more effective with their team, overcoming resistance to, strategies and just becoming a whole better leader than they are, and realizing as a leader, not everything is solely on your shoulders.

You have a team. You've got people and organization. But part of it is just kinda working that recipe, so to speak, of becoming better at communicating your vision, your values, and what you're looking for, and getting your team to come along on the ride with you. I also work in an area of, what we call, career mobility.

So an organization might be Thinking about, okay, we're gonna need to lay off people. And that's going on right now because of the AI.

Jill: Right, right. 

And so, we're not gonna just put them out on the street. We're gonna give them a three, four month plan that they can work with a coach to help them either find a new job inside the organization or prepare them for when their exit date is.

Jill: Got it.

Howard: And then the last part of the equation is career transition, so folks that have lost their jobs.

And then, again, I get assigned them, and I help them with their resumes, their cover letters, their LinkedIn profile their branding, interviewing, how to find the jobs. most people search for a new job by searching for their job title.

That's not gonna get you very far. What are the skills and expertise that you have? And then how do you translate what some other company is looking for into, "Here's how I can help that company," and then use that as a promotional tool.

Jill: Right. Use it, sharpen the tools in their tool chest.

Howard: Yeah.

Jill: So you mentioned LinkedIn, and that's one of the first things you had said to me, and I must admit, I didn't even really start any of that stuff until you had originally coached me on it. But, and I'm not even great at it, but I feel bad because I feel like it's a phenomenal tool when you are in transition or in a mobility mode.

I mean, that makes a lot of sense, so you're shopping it, you're putting information out there, and people are looking at it for potential new people for their own, to bring in and to hire. But, I have to get better at realizing it's also just a great place to share your information, share your business, what it does, what it can do for others.

And so it has become just a real professional network that I need to build up better.

Howard: Sure. And, whether it's an event that's being hosted, like the Lunch and Learn sessions, or even an episode that gets produced, is you share a link out to that on your LinkedIn page.

So now you're exponentially growing a much larger audience, 'cause if they're searching for some of those keywords, they're gonna find your episode.

Jill: Yeah, I definitely need to visit with, my communications team and have them help me make sure that we're putting something out on there

Howard: Yeah 

Jill: often enough.

Howard: and I would add, as a leader in the community, as a CEO of the Boulder City Chamber of Commerce or any business owner, whether you're active on it or not, you should have a good, well-branded presence, good photos banners an explanation of who you are and what you do. and whether you're active on it or not, that's quite all right. But having a presence out there because other businesses, other leaders of, all walks of life are gonna be searching, and the idea is you wanna be found.

Jill: Yes, I definitely want to look at that, so thank you.

See? Even when I'm interviewing you, you're coaching me and I've got a homework list. All right. very good. So I would imagine, too, sometimes in those conversations that you're having, for me anyway, I noted that, it just was nice just to talk out loud. And so as we're having dialogue, as you're asking me questions, I'm realizing me just saying things out loud, it's popping back into my brain going, "Oh, yeah, I knew that answer.

Oh, yeah, I knew I needed to go that direction." But saying it out loud helped me formulate it and kinda mind map a little bit better so that I am now better in touch with the direction I need to go, but I just needed a human to communicate that to.

Howard: And that's really the difference between coaching, mentoring, consulting, advising, because in coaching, we look forward, and our belief is our clients, for the most part, have the wherewithal to get to where they wanna go.

But for whatever reason, there's a barrier. And it's not intentional. Could be unintentional. But having a coach there... And I like to use an analogy, is I always ask my clients, "Have you ever sailed before?" Most of them said, "No." But I always will share, you're the skipper of the boat.

Jill: Yes.

Howard: You tell me where you wanna go.

My role is to be your crewmate. 

Jill: Okay. 

Howard: And I'm here to help you get to where you want to go, and we do that through dialogue and questions.

Now if I have some specific information, I'll get permission to share it with you. But again, our belief is you know where you wanna go. I'm just helping you talk it out so that it becomes the reality of, okay, now I'm gonna take these next steps.

Jill: I love that, and thank you very much for kind of describing that. But I have to admit, as you were saying those words, I was picturing myself as the captain and you as Gilligan.

Howard: Skipper. All right.

Jill: Yeah. Yeah. 

Howard: Thank you very much 

Jill: and I got so scared.

Howard: That's scary.

Jill: I'm gonna get you a little hat, a Gilligan hat.

Howard: Oh, gosh. What have I done? 

Jill: That is awesome. Well, thank you very much. And so I'm so grateful that we have people like you. And you had mentioned displacement because of AI, and I do want to really emphasize that this is a human relational interaction. This cannot be transactional whatsoever, and I really see AI as that transactional when people are saying, "Well, I can just talk to AI, and it will give me ideas of what to do as a business owner, as a leader, as a whatever."

But I don't think you get that without that human element without emotional attachment, without that relationship that's been built up. until you really have that, you don't have the ability to have those direct conversations that can also say, "Hey, Jill, you need to get over imposter syndrome here."

You know, those are things that, maybe AI would've told me that, but would I really... it's still a computer. It's still not, the relationship that's giving me that feedback and so grateful for your human work.

Howard: Thank you. Thank you.

Jill: All right. So I would love to know a little bit more about who Howard is. So Howard, what was your very first job?

Howard: Oh, God, my very first job. I've spent my entire life hiding anything about my background. But the, Actually, when I was growing up, I lived in Oak Park, Michigan. 

Jill: Okay. 

Howard: the, or the other Oak Park, 'cause you say, "I lived in Oak Park," people think of Oak Park, Illinois.

Jill: Okay, got it.

Howard: Okay. You're from the out west, so you, that might not

Jill: No, I didn't even know. I was like okay, whatever

Howard: It's a Midwest thing. So I grew up in Oak Park, Michigan. Around the block from where I lived was this little diner. It was called the Oak Park Drive-In. It was literally a hole in the wall.

Jill: Okay.

Howard: But every day there was a, entree of the day, there was a soup of the day, and The gentleman, Nicholas Lekas, he was Greek, and he taught me... So I started the job doing dishwashing and eventually I would take some orders. but he liked to play chess, he liked to play cards, and so as I got more experience, I would take over the short order work.

Jill: Okay.

Howard: Unless we got really busy, and then he would come in and start helping. I would have to say, "Nick, we're getting busy here." But he was also, mentioned a second ago, he was Greek. he taught me how to make spanakopita 

Jill: Oh

Howard: which is cheese and spinach pie.

Jill: Yes.

Howard: so if you ever want me to make that

Jill: Yes

Howard: my kitchen's too small.

Jill: You can come to my house.

Howard: I'll come to your house.

Jill: There's a reason I invite you to Christmas dinner.

Howard: There you go. But I've been making it literally almost all my life.

Jill: Oh, wow.

Howard: And so I've got my recipe. It's pretty well set, he taught me how to make it, and really, I, I worked there even when I was going through college.

I'd come back, for a, a day off or something and he'd need some help, and I said, "Sure, I'm over there," so three or four hours. And it was just good to hang out with him, get some really good diner food, and really

Jill: And he laid a foundation for you that you 

Howard: Yes 

Jill: never realized until later.

Howard: Oh, yeah.

Yeah. It was actually, believe it or not, that place, that restaurant, that diner is where I first got interested in photography. And, 'cause I would bring my camera, and I would take pictures of the guests. And then one of the guests said, "You know, my cousin is a photographer. He's looking for this, term called a side-lighter."

In the past, you had a guy with a camera, a person with a camera

Jill: Okay 

Howard: gender neutral, and somebody had a big light 

Jill: Okay 

Howard: that they would, they called them side-lighters.

Jill: Oh, yeah.

Howard: And so the photographer had a camera, her light, and then the side-lighter kind of did the fill-in. That's how I learned photography and doing events. And that's literally how I paid my way through school, by doing wedding photography, anniversaries, bar mitzvahs. And so it's like one thing kind of builds on the other.

Jill: You know, that's interesting 'cause we actually have that in common.

Howard: Yeah

Jill: So I did some, bridal modeling for a local, a Vegas, photographer, and then that rolled into she did my wedding, and then that rolled into, "Hey, do you wanna come help me?

You can hold lights. You'll hold the filter." those, things that folded out that we now use in our windows for shade screens. Wow. We had those that were filtered light.

Howard: Really? Wow.

Jill: And so yeah, I, did that with her for a bunch of different weddings. I learned a lot from her. But it did roll me right into the event business, and I ended up with a wedding, planning business.

Howard: It's amazing where we end up. It just, you look back, and you can see the breadcrumbs.

Jill: Yes.

Howard: But in the moment, it's like, we're just shifting,

Jill: Yes

Howard: kind of like that sailboat, just wherever the wind's taking us this is where I wanna go.

Jill: All right. All right, Gilligan.

I'm on course with you.

Howard: Thanks, Skipper.

Jill: That's also awesome. So, I know too that there's probably something about you that people didn't know, but now I think they know all about your wedding business and your photography and the background. 

Howard: Oh

Howard: What a cool thing. I think that's awesome.

And again, we learn so many little things from all these different experiences. So what, you know this is my favorite question, 'cause you listen to every episode. So you know I ask everybody this question. What's your favorite book, or what book are you reading right now?

Howard: Oh, favorite book.

I don't read for pleasure. I just don't have the time

Jill: Okay

Howard: and actually don't even have a TV. If I watch YouTube videos or I might binge watch, but... So I, there's some books that I recommend when I'm coaching and especially like in, team leadership. It's called Turn the Ship Around

Jill: Yes

Howard: by David Marquet, and love the book because it teaches us from being a leader and expecting a leader/follower relationship, and the followers depend on the leader to tell them exactly what to do, when to do it, and how to do it. Whereas a leader/leader relationship is, here's the guidelines.

You figure out what needs to be done within those guidelines. If you have questions, then you go through your chain of command or you come to me. Don't tell me that you're gonna do something, or don't ask me permission to do something, tell me you're gonna do it and tell me the why.

Jill: Yeah.

Howard: And I'm gonna say, "Okay, great.

Let me know when it's done." Love it. But there's so many folks when they become leaders or managers, they were never taught how to lead.

They were taught how to do, get things done, and do whatever it takes. But, in this day and age, things are moving so quickly, and leaders are so overwhelmed that having good teams that they can trust to get the work done is so very important, and I just love the story.

The Turn the Ship Around, the author was a naval, a skipper of a nuclear powered submarine at the time. Whoa.

Jill: That's big.

Howard: Yeah. Lives are at stake.

Jill: Yeah, exactly.

Howard: And it was rated lowest in the fleet, this boat that he was on.

Jill: Huh.

Howard: And he took it over and just raised its standing amongst it, the other, boats in the fleet.

But I love that book. I love books on leadership, like The Leadership Challenge by James Kouzes and Barry Posner. You know, Patrick Lencioni's work, The Five Dysfunctions of a Team.

And then Marshall Goldsmith, and there's actually a cute story there. He wrote a book called What Got You Here Won't Get You There.

Jill: Yep, exactly.

Howard: Yeah. No, I once had, shared two bottles of champagne with Marshall Goldsmith in a bar in Indianapolis.

Jill: Really?

Howard: Yeah, it was

Jill: How cool

Howard: I was at a Midwest coaching conference, and I was just sitting outside. It was a nice evening, and he's coming back with a couple folks from this reception, and he literally, goes, "Who's going to the bar?"

Jill: Interesting.

Howard: And that's like, nobody said anything. I thought 

Jill: I'll go.

Howard: Literally, and then, he was very much into champagne, and- that was fun. It was great How cool And I have a photo, and every year when he has his birthday, I say, "Happy birthday, Marshall. This was the highlight of my meeting you."

Jill: That is amazing. What a cool thing that you get to do with that.

Howard: Yeah.

Jill: That's awesome. And now you had also told me about another book that I wanna ask you more questions about, Blue Green Psychology. Oh. What the heck is that?

Howard: Yes. So As I have been coaching, one of the... Especially being in the outdoor space and working with other journalists and also folks that are going through their own journey, and some of it's healthcare related, mental health

Jill: Right

Howard: related, physical health.

Jill: Especially now, yeah. 

Howard: Yeah. Is this connection between coaching and the outdoor space, putting your feet on the trail, in the dirt, in the sand, in the water, and stopping in the moment just to think, "How am I feeling? What, what's going on in my life?" You know, "Where am I?" 

Jill: Yeah. 

Howard: "What do I wanna do?" And so the idea of coaching is really taking people, not in the middle of August in Boulder City 

Jill: Yeah, obviously 

Howard: but other parts, other times during the year, is taking a group of people out on the trail and just talking. "What's going on? What are you most proud of this week or this month?

What challenge are you facing that maybe you want some perspective or questions?"

Jill: So in open air you're asking them these questions. They're in, in a space that could be very, inspiring and allows them to take a deep breath and open up.

Howard: Yeah.

Jill: Interesting.

Howard: There's a, So up on the northern part of Las Vegas, the Desert National Wildlife Refuge.

Jill: Yes.

Howard: I love that place 'cause I lived right near there before I moved to Boulder City.

Jill: Yeah.

Howard: So I do miss that, by the way.

Jill: I'm sorry.

Howard: It's okay. But there's these... It's a very navigable, area. A lot of nice trails, but there's one trail that ends with a bench up on the top, and you can just stop there and sit and look and observe. And whether you're with, two or three people, having this, these little walk talks

Jill: Yeah 

Howard: It's just, it's inspirational.

As opposed to all the time doing your coaching over the phone or in an office. And there is that connection. It's interesting, the gentleman who wrote, co-wrote the book, Jonathan Passmore, very prolific coach and author

He is actually an officer in the company that I work for, Ezra.

Jill: Oh, interesting.

Howard: Yeah. And then Ellie Loy Jones, it's her... This was, I do believe, her initiative, her interest in bringing people outdoors. And he also had a similar interest, and that's how they came together. They were on the Outdoor Adventure Series podcast. And

Jill: Oh, I'll have to check it out

Howard: And that's where... There's something here to offer and to provide, and I can do it with others who are also interested in this space. And, but this connection and just slowing down just to, to be in the moment and reset yourself is so very important.

And we're in one of the most beautiful places in the world.

Jill: Yeah.

Howard: It's right outside our door, except not in the middle of August. But, go out to Lake Mead. go walk the loop trail. And just embrace being out in nature.

Jill: Yeah. Take a deep breath. I agree. Okay, so Howard, what do you think the real reason is for coaching and nature and that combination? Because you've done such a fabulous job of bringing out the outdoor series and things to do in the great outdoors, the importance, the value, the educational component. 

I've listened in on many and I've learned so much from them. But what do you really see the value of coaching and nature? What's there? Why is it?

Howard: So I think the, from my vantage point, the value of coaching in nature is one, all of us, whether it's an adult our age, whether it's young kids who are navigating the complexities of being away at college or their first job, or they're in high school and all, and younger, this and those challenges.

Getting away from the tech. Getting away from this constant bombardment of information It's so important just to unwind And go somewhere where you can be quiet and slow down. I had a client I was working with this week, and we were just usually chit-chatting the first couple minutes of a call, and he was saying, "Yeah, I took my son fishing."

And we started to get into, you know, the experience of fishing, the son, catching a fish and, and then, "Oh, I wanna catch some more." But then where are all the possibilities where this father son relationship can go? But this idea is here's parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles, cousins, helping their family go out and explore and be a part of nature.

And so the folks like myself grew up in urban setting. I mean, we had a, a county park, I would go to growing up, not very much though. Kensington Metro Park in, the Detroit suburbs. But just finding a way just to walk away from the tech, go find a nice park, walk around the trail, sit at a bench, and just listen.

Just be there in the moment. Now, if you add on the coaching, it doesn't have to be, what are you... How are you feeling, Joe? What do you wanna do?" "What do you wanna do? What's... What are your struggles?" It can be there just in the moment, and the coach and nature are what I would call agents of change.

Jill: Oh, interesting.

Howard: So you are living the life where you're at today, whatever those challenges might be, but you have a coach, and now you have nature there. That agent of change and, like, slowing down, being mindful. How are you feeling? What's going on, How was the week? what are some opportunities that are coming up?

What are some challenges? Who do you need to support you? And maybe you take your team. If they're struggling, if they're stressed, take them around the block. Do a Interesting a walk talk. I

Jill: Yeah 

Howard: the CEO, the, of the, Red Rock National Conservation Area, I interviewed her. That was a term she used, and I love that. Walk talks.

Jill: She did a walk talk. Walk talks. Oh, I love that.

Howard: And just... 'Cause it's a great way to get away from the boardroom or the, the Zoom call or Teams call and just get out into nature and just, there's a vibration going on, and I don't know the metaphysics of that.

But when we're close to nature, there's something going on in our bodies. It's like this rhythm that's just taking place.

Jill: I totally agree with that, and when people ask you, what, where's your favorite place, where's your hangout place, your place you go to that you feel the best in and your favorite, I don't know that anybody says, "Behind my PC screen," No or on my phone. Normally, it is, in a hammock on a beach, in a tree swing in the forest, in a, all of these different places that tend to be people's favorite happy places. Does that really involve tech? And we know tech is important. We need it. We have to have it.

It has bettered our lives. It's made our lives a lot better in many different aspects. However, coming to terms and coming to terms with your own inner self with, just nature and the balance there, I think we need to have... The, the word is balance. We need to have balance. We have to have that tech, but you have to have that downtime, that breathing time, that time to be still.

And so I so love that idea. I'm gonna definitely check into that Blue-Green Psychology. That sounds pretty amazing. And it's actually Outdoor Coaching: A Practical Guide for Coaches and Supervisors to Working with Clients, Teams and Groups Using Blue-Green Psychology. Yep. It's a very long title. Did he not even think to use,

Howard: their P- Jonathan is a PhD, and, their dissertations, I can't even understand what a dissertation title is.

Jill: It's impressive. I'm gonna read it for sure. 

Howard: Yes. 

Jill: I just love the concept. 

Howard: Yeah. 

Jill: And, just listening to you, feeling good about, okay, that is what I need to be more in touch with, then walk talks make total sense.

And I think that you probably would be more in tune with the person you're interviewing, working with. I'm gonna start doing all of our employee evaluations walking and talking.

Howard: You've got this wonderful hill right behind the 

Jill: Yeah 

Howard: office here. Now, again, not in August. But I would love to be sitting up on top of that hill on the bench or whatever's gonna go up there.

I know there's plans for it. 

Jill: Yeah. 

Howard: But what a wonderful place just to sit back and relax, look at... You're overlooking Lake Mead, and, maybe the sun's hasn't come up or maybe it's- it's behind you. But, it's cooled down. There's a nice breeze, and you just get to have a nice conversation and be there in the moment. So love that you've got it all here.

Jill: I love that. Yes. I'm gonna call myself a retreat center. There you go. So much for adventure. So I would imagine your mom and dad have taught you some pretty essential things that you have taken and carried throughout your life. Do you have anything you would like to share?

Howard: Mom and Dad, so I have... It's been so long 'cause they're gone now. But the I think I was and I am Jewish and I'm not heavily religious, but it's almost as though there's this connection to the ethics of Judaism 

Jill: Yes 

Howard: is stepping in and protecting the weak.

Protect you know , who needs help, offering a hand, not with any type of, expectation whatsoever. And I've always tended to gravitate to the underdog. 

Jill: Yes. 

Howard: And and there's a saying i- in, in, in Proverbs. it's like you're not obligated to complete the task, but neither are you free to abandon it.

And so you're always looking, "How can I make a difference?" And so my, parents always instilled in me, "Do what's right. Do the right thing even if it's hard, even if you can't fix it." "But do your best to try." 

Jill: Well 

Howard: And so I've always remembered that

Jill: they would be very proud of you because you have been able to fix a lot of things for a lot of people, and even if it was nothing more but helped them along to come to their own conclusions and solutions.

So thank you for that, and they, I'm grateful for your parents and what they instilled in you because it has helped me for sure. So as we conclude here, I just really want to make sure that any other chambers, any of my peers, any other DMOs that, have any interest whatsoever, I 100,000 bazillion times recommend Podcast Centric and Ryan and Howard.

They've been phenomenal partners, and I'm happy to give a huge referral to anyone. And if they wanna call and ask me questions, I am more than happy to kinda talk them through. Appreciate it ... what that process looks like because I really truly believe in it. I believe it is helping me meet my mission. as a chamber director, it's helped me be a better leader.

It's helped me learn and understand more about so many other aspects of the individuals that I have been able to interview, and it's been fascinating. It has been such a learning lesson and, empowering and, inspirational. So thank you for introducing this to me. I am more than happy to talk to anybody about also bringing it into their own chambers or their own DMOs.

And so thank you so much for being here today.

Howard: My pleasure. Thank you, and I appreciate that offer. And we are happy to chat with anybody about why every chamber or DMO either needs to podcast or be a guest on one. Come experience what it's like and be a guest on the Best Damn Podcast. I love it.

Jill: Yes. Great. 

Howard: Thank you so much. 

Jill: Great final words. Thank you so much. 

Howard: All right.