In a typically "off-the-rails" session on The Best Dam Podcast, Jill chats with Alex Raffi, the creative force behind Imagine Communications. Alex, a self-proclaimed impulsive idea hunter, shares his fascinating philosophy on brainstorming, human intuition, communication, and the art of storytelling in business.

If you’ve ever wondered why your marketing isn't resonating or how to truly connect with your audience, Alex’s insights—from the power of the subconscious to why humility can sometimes hinder success—offer a masterclass in modern communication.

Discussion

• The Newsroom of the Mind: Alex describes the conscious mind as the "newspaper" and the subconscious mind as the"newsroom" where ideas are worked out. Your subconscious is always processing information, even when your conscious mind is asleep.
  
  
• Curiosity is the Engine: If you are not curious about something, the information gets ignored by your subconscious, meaning you won't have ideas about it. Therefore, to be great at something, you need to surround yourself with what you are curious about.
  
  
• No Rails in Brainstorming: Alex encourages bringing up even "weird" or abstract ideas during brainstorming, as the subconscious often gives hints (like a bird and a horse leading to a Pegasus) that can inspire others.
  
  
• The Artist's Release: Once a piece of art or marketing is created, Alex learned from his teacher that it's no longer the creator's. It is only "alive" when the audience interacts with it and interprets it as they choose.
  
  
• Perception vs. Perspective: It's impossible to change a person's perception (their deeply wired belief). However, you can change their perception by changing their perspective, which is learned, usually through storytelling.
  
  
• The Hero-Customer Model: In marketing, Alex advises against making your business the hero. Instead, you should speak to the customer in a way that shows them they are the hero, and your business is simply providing the tools they need to save themselves.
  
  
• The Humility Hurdle: Alex believes that humility often gets in the way of businesses identifying and promoting their most valuable traits. He suggests it's easier to bring in an outsider who can speak plainly and confidently about what makes the business unique.
  
  
• The Logo Buy-In Trick: When a client is hesitant about a final design, Alex sometimes lets them suggest a small, immediate change (like changing a color or adding a star). This gives them an actual hand in the creation, making it their logo and leading to approval.
  
  
• The Chamber's Core Purpose: Alex reminds listeners that the Chamber of Commerce is not "just networking". Its original and current purpose is to serve as an advocate for businesses, protecting them and connecting them with the city and necessary resources.
  
  
• Listen, Don't Wait to Speak: Alex admits he is impulsive and has to work on shutting up and truly listening to his talented team. He notes that Jill is naturally open to listening, not just waiting for her chance to tell her opinion, which is a valuable trait.
  
  

LEARN MORE

To learn more about Alex Raffi and Imagine Communications, you can visit the Imagine Communications website at www.marketingwithimagine.com

KEYWORDS

Imagine Communications, Boulder City Chamber of Commerce, Brainstorming, Storytelling, Marketing Strategy, Business Advocacy

#ImagineCommunications #BoulderCityChamberofCommerce #Brainstorming #Storytelling #MarketingStrategy #Business Advocacy

Podcast Transcript

Jill: Super fun day today we get to have a little brainstorming session with the famous Alex Raffi. Famous, infamous. It's all the same.

Alex: Yeah, it's all the same.

Jill: So Alex Raffi with Imagine Communications. I'm so grateful to have him in my corner because. The Chamber would not be the same without Imagine Communication.

So thank you so much for being here.

Alex: it, the feeling's Mutual, you're in a lot of people's corner and you're definitely in my corner and, I think that everybody would agree. That you're the perfect person to have in your foxhole.

Jill: Oh, thank you. Hopefully we don't have to go to war, but some days it feels like that, right?

Alex: Sometimes it feels like that.

Jill: So I,

Alex: Zombie apocalypse, that's what it is. You know the team that you want during the zombie apocalypse?

Jill: We just got rid of, October, so we're over that now. We're Santa Apocalypse.

Alex: There you go.

Jill: These sessions tend to go off the rails, so I figured let's one, it's already started.

Let's not have rails. Let's just go.

Alex: Let's just go.

Jill:  And so I am really excited to visit with you because, so we are known as being somebody that when we have an agenda in front of us, sorry, Bobby Long, but, we have an agenda in front of us. We don't tend to follow it, do we? No. We just do our own thing and then get in trouble.

And poor Bobby's oh, herding cats again.

Alex: Yeah, it's a thing with my team. I've got an amazing team at Imagine Communications. And they're all, aware that me, that I am, I am impulsive sometimes and I tend to go off the rails because I love to just discover and search and hunt for ideas.

And it's the finding the ideas that's exciting. And the problem is that you're the exact same way. So that both of us are in the same room, and then we get very excited about a concept or idea, and then we need to form it. Like clearly in front of us right there. And Bobby's yeah, but we have 10 other things on the agenda that we have to hit.

But, but he's amazing and he's great at herding cats, like you said, and everything. But it also, I think that whenever you're brainstorming, it's important to make it fun and important to also make time for fun. And I think that, it, when I talk about brainstorming.

I have a drawing that I use to kinda show the processes of brainstorming. And one of the areas is basically a line and the line goes along, and then it moves up as you start to get a better idea. And then I have a loop that happens at the top. And the reason for the loop is that the way that we work sometimes when we're searching for creative ideas is as you're talking about the thing for whatever reason.

Your brain puts something in it that's weird, like something that doesn't feel like logically it makes sense, but your brain thinks of it anyway. And the way the subconscious works a lot of times is it gives you hints. It doesn't tell you exactly what it wants, but it gives you a hint towards something that's in the direction you're looking for.

So that's why I like when we're doing a brainstorm is even if something sounds weird, bring it up. Because you may not know why it, it's inspired this in you, but somebody else in the room might go, you know what, that made me think of something.

And it happens all the time. So I sound like a lunatic sometimes in meetings because I'll just go on a weird tangent.

But then eventually you'll find out why, that what steered you in that direction. And that's how great ideas happen, I think, is you being open to the abstract things that happen sometimes and sometimes they don't lead anywhere. But I don't think it's because it was wrong. I think it's because you just didn't figure it out.

Because I really trust intuition, human intuition a lot. And our brains are very amazing. And I think that, I described this, the conscious and the subconscious, our conscious mind is like the newspaper. And our subconscious mind is the newsroom. Where there's a lot of things happening and being built and there's a lot of different information that's going into it.

And then that's being organized and then it gets delivered to your conscious mind. So when you get an idea, it's because it already got worked out in your subconscious, but there's a lot of junk in your subconscious.

And the stuff that's in your subconscious, I think this is important to understand, is if you're not curious about something, it doesn't go into your subconscious,

Jill: Right

Alex: You're, it gets ignored. So if you're not curious about. Cooking,

Jill: Right?

Alex: You're a terrible cook because your subconscious ignores that and there's no ideas. You don't have any ideas 'cause it doesn't store it. If you were, it would store all those things, little hints, take flavors and things like that because you were curious about it.

And then you would be looking for that when you're trying to make your recipe, right?

So it's important to understand that if you want to be great at something, you need to surround yourself with a thing that you're curious about because it's gonna just make you better. Because when you fall asleep, your subconscious doesn't go to sleep. Your regular conscious mind does, but your subconscious is still working. It's always processing and everything. That's where drains come from.

It's from all those weird things in your, that you're curious about now are being worked on, and then you just have a memory of them, but they don't make sense because they need to get processed through your conscious mind where, okay, let's turn this bird and this horse into a Pegasus. I get.

Jill: So saying just that as you, as soon as you said Pegasus and Horse, it reminded me of some of the art that you have done. Some of the beautiful art and the children's books And the classes that you teach on teaching children how to draw from numbers fascinates me.

But I'm wondering. So does your, so when you're sitting and you're meditating, does your mind just see those things? Because I, the whole curiosity thing, I'm curious of what happens in that brain. Do you ever have quiet time? You don't wanna be there? I would imagine quiet time. Yeah. Do you just sit and just have zero things happen in your head, or are you constantly going,

Alex: I'm a man.

Jill: So you,

Alex: so we have,

Jill: I don't know where to go with this.

Alex: We have moments where nothing happens in our brains, but, but in general, I think that, I do have a hunger for curiosity, so I'll explore things. That's why I like poetry, because I have to decipher what in my own view what a thing is.

One of the things that I'm not super curious about is. Is really understanding the motivation of the artist. I'm not really totally curious about whoever the, if we're talking about art in general. Jesse, you use as an example. Like I'll see a painting and then I'm not really curious about the history of the artist or what the reason was for painting it or who commissioned the artwork or whatever.

I'm just looking at a painting and. It is, makes me feel whatever it is. And then that's what's curious to me.

Jill: So then don't you think we do a disservice in school? Because I remember in school we were graded on making sure you had interpreted that piece, that writing that whatever.

Based on what the artist wanted you to hear or learn or know.

And I remember always thinking. I think this is wrong. So this teacher's telling me that I have to know this was the interpretation, this is what they were thinking, this is why they did this. And in my thought process, I'm like, how do you know? Did they tell you that? Because if they didn't tell you that how you could be two shades completely wrong.

And I, I always felt like I don't like being told what or having to be scored right based on what their interpretation of my answer should be.

Alex: Yeah. I think this is a slippery slope for me because. I can't think of a more noble profession than being a teacher. I agree. they are incredibly important and they should be treated better.

They should be paid more, right? I think all of that stuff, and they're also, their hands are tied most of the time because of, what they're told they need to focus on and how they need to focus on it because of how the school system's set up. I think they're two different things. I think teachers. In general, understand and probably feel the same way we do.

Jill: Oh, that's interesting. I didn't think about that.

Alex: That the teachers individually do that. Why would you do that job? Unless you really cared about each individual kid in the room.

Understanding that all of them are different and all of them understand and process things differently, and how hard is that when you have a room full of.

40, 50 kids or whatever. I don't know how many people, but a lot of times they have a lot of kids and it's hard to get the bigger message. So there's this kind of balance and it gets difficult. But I, but there in, in terms of interpretation, I think you're right. Tom Dowling, who is my, I.

If I'm not a big fan of saying mentors or anything, but if I had one, it would be him really. And he was my, experimental art teacher in college. And back in the day, that was a thousand years ago when I went to college to do that. You had to take all these prerequisite classes just to get into his class in, they didn't have computers back then.

They had like microfiche. So I lied. I said I took all the prerequisite classes 'cause I heard about his class and I just wanted to get into it. And so I got in the class and it was probably the most life-changing experience of my life because of what I learned from him. And one of the, I am always deferring to lessons I learned in that class, in my career, and in my personal life that I learned from how to appreciate art and how to express art, and how to learn and how to attack art.

I wouldn't be who I am today if it wasn't for the things I learned in that classroom.

Jill: That's awesome.

Alex: And, I had a chance to tell him that, which was fantastic because he's a friend of mine and now I had a chance to sit in his house and express to him exactly. Do you remember when you said this?

Do you remember when you said this? this is how I interpreted this, and this is, and he's just, he was just like, wow. Half the time when you're a teacher, you don't think anybody's paying attention,

But, but one of the things he told me, which I, which he taught me I, which I think was very important.

Is that when you're an artist or your writer or whoever you are and you're creating a thing, once the thing is done, it's no longer yours. It's gone. And when you release it, it's really not alive. It's only alive when someone interacts with it. Now, this is relevant to marketing too, is you have to think about whatever ad you're putting out.

It's not like it's expressing anything. It doesn't mean anything until somebody sees it and when they see it, it comes to life. And then Interesting. That person interprets it however they want to interpret it. Whatev what you want it to interpret doesn't matter anymore. It's what they interpret when they see it

Jill: And what's happening in their life, how they receive it at that time.

Alex: So like anytime even with writing whatever you're writing. If, and the trick is. if you want it to be good, you shouldn't think about that. You shouldn't think about how people will perceive what you're writing.

Jill: Oh yeah.

Alex: You need to write what you think is important and then people might be able to interpret it exactly the way you want it to, but other people might find something in it that's valuable to them.

And I think that if you're a writer or an artist and interesting. When you meet people who look at your art, admire your art, and they start talking about your art to you. It's interesting to hear their perspective.

Jill: Yeah.

Alex: Because sometimes they're way off. And the worst thing you can do is say, no.

That's not what I meant with it. This is what I meant with it. That's not what you want to do. you want people to have a relationship with whatever it is that you're doing, and I think that's relevant to almost anything. And if you think about it, whenever we communicate with each other, we say what we think is the right thing to say, but what we say is being interpreted by a person who's lived a whole different life than you.

And they have their own interpretation of what it is and what it means. So being thoughtful and having empathy when communicating with anybody is really important. Having grace, a lot of times if somebody's rude to you, it's not because they're a terrible person, it's 'cause they had a bad day, or and showing them a little grace can actually shift an, an environment or a commun or a situation.

It's the way we react to things, and I think that's important. I'm a marketing guy. But I think these things are relevant because, you're in situations sometimes where you maybe are having to, deal. Okay. For example, one of our clients, deals with, is a union and their sheet metal union, and the group in it is in charge of safety and health of the members Who are in construction, which is a very dangerous job.

And one of the issues is that of course it's a dangerous job. Construction workers get injured. Construction workers didn't have to go to the doctor and get pain medication. And when you get pain medication, it's very possible to get addicted to it.

And then addiction combined with stresses of work leads to possibly suicide in some situations.

Jill: Oh geez. So it's like a dark turn.

Alex: Yeah. but the reason it's relevant is that, then how do you communicate to people. In that are maybe dealing with things that might lead to that.

And what you have to have is empathy for what they're going through. So one of the things we did when working with them is to, talk about what it feels like to be in a spiral. So I created this animated piece and we use this generic figure. And what I showed is all the stresses they go through, working at the desk, getting phone calls and deadlines and stuff like that.

And then I had him. Fall through the floor into an ocean, and he's in the middle of the ocean and there's sharks in there. And it's a storm and there's lightning. And that's what it feels like is you're just in the middle of the ocean, right? And you're treading water and you're drowning. But then a boat comes by and it's this group, the, the, these guys that smoke hit that actually come in and help them out.

They bring 'em on the boat and then the guy's scared. He's what are you guys doing? What are you guys doing? 'cause that's what it's like when you try to approach somebody that's going through this stuff. Oh, I'm fine. I'm fine. But then you work through it and at the end of the video, that person that was the one that was drowning is on the boat.

Reaching into another person that's drowning and pulling them out of the boat, and that's who they want to be eventually is they want to be a solution to the problem,

Jill: Right

Alex: So telling a story and having empathy for what people are going through is the best way sometimes to do marketing. It's because, it's not if you go and say, Hey listen, you're gonna be okay, or, we have this tool for you.

You're not making them the hero of this story. 'Cause people that are going through that, they don't need, they don't think they want to be saved, but they want to be the ones that are given the tools so they can save themselves. That's a better place to be at. And a lot of times I think in marketing, we try to make ourselves the hero to a customer.

When you need to speak to them in a sense that you're the hero and we're here to show you how you're the hero and how to help you be the hero. And I think that a lot of times that's a way to, to communicate that Sometimes it's more effective, especially now, I think people don't like to be told what to do.

They like to figure things out on their own. And I think that's. Yeah. I'm not sure where I got this, how I got here, but,

Jill: So I don't know either. Because you're a master storyteller, that's how you got there. So knowing that you're a master storyteller.

Alex: Yeah.

Jill: And that is your world, and not only between your art and your verbal communication, all of those things make you who you are and why I am so impressed by you.

But what happens if we're telling the wrong story? What happens if, the message that we're sharing is not resonating? How do businesses. Because essentially we're hoping businesses are listening, right? So how do we get back on that right story? How do we know if we're telling the wrong story?

Alex: I think it's important and this not isn't meant to be self-serving or anything, but a lot of times the problem is the focus of the story is trying to come up with the story.

And we tend to not really know what's cool about ourselves. We tend to actually, humility gets in the way because usually the best part of who you are, the most valuable thing about who you are is something that you don't wanna brag about. It's something that, And I think that people don't like bragging about themselves, so they come up with this kind of a, what they think people want to hear, And it's hard to be honest, and sometimes it's easier to bring someone in from the outside.

Who can learn about you or already knows about you. Like sometimes a good question would be is if you have a best friend or something and say, what do you think is great about what we do? Because they have an opinion in their, see, that's the thing about marketing it, it's not, there's no barrier of entry.

Sure you can have a degree in marketing, but everybody's a consumer of marketing. Everybody is able to go ahead and find, find out. Why thing is valuable and why I wanna work with them. So it's not a skillset. Everybody's qualified to judge marketing, in other words. So I think that's important is to understand that you might not be the best person in terms of trying to express why you are good at what you do.

Find someone on the outside who can speak plainly and confidently about it. Humility is nice. People who have humility are. it's charming and everything, but humility never built a pyramid. Humility never built a bridge. Humility doesn't do much. If you're building something, you need to talk about yourself and what you value so that other people who value the same thing will notice.

That's how people are. they, they are drawn to things, they're that are relatable. when I hire people, one of the things I like to do is ask them to bring two things that they're proud of or talk about so that we can talk about two things that they're proud of, because. I could teach you how to be a good marketer.

I could teach you all the tools. I could teach you all the things, teach you how to use the programs and the software. But I can't teach you how to, how you're wired. And I wanna know how you're wired. 'cause that's the thing I can't teach. And that's a lot of times is where the richness comes from.

That's where the uniqueness comes from. That's where the best ideas come from. It's from you, not from some machine. We aren't machines. After all we're all, we all have very unique and interesting. And I think you do this on a regular basis because you talk to a lot of people and you meet a lot of people, and you get excited by people.

You always get, I see this in you all the time, and you have this thing where you can speak to someone and immediately see what you really admire about them, and you're eager to tell them about it or talk about them to someone else later. And I've had conversations with you and you tell me how great this person was and that you met and everything, and that eagerness and that curiosity that you have makes you, It puts you at a, in a position to be able to do your job so well is because you are able to identify opportunities quickly because of your curiosity. And I think a lot of people don't, they might have the curiosity, but they don't see the value in it.

Jill: and that's a lesson that you're still trying to teach me, right?

I'm still trying to get out of the humility thing of that, because yes, we're all still learning, we're all still trying to be valuable, but also making sure that we realize what we bring to the table is relevant, needed, and necessary, and we're doing good things with it. But it's so hard to tell that story out loud because I know in the back of my mind, we're doing excellent work at the Chamber of Commerce.

However, it's very hard to convey that and it's hard to talk about it. But one of the programs that we're working on right now that you are helping with is going out and interviewing our members. And understanding a little bit more about their understanding of what the chamber is, what it can do for them, whether they're using it to its full potential, or if it's just something they're grateful to have or if it's something that they, they don't feel as positive about and why that is so that we can make those improvements.

And some of the feedback that you're getting. It's hard sometimes to hear, but it is exactly what we need to do to move forward. And then I'm still having a hard time when they say, oh, everything's great. And, I still have a hard time recognizing that we are doing good stuff. and so I have to take a step back, but I'm grateful for the information that you're finding out and understanding the story that other people have about the chamber.

Alex: And I think that it's hard to control what people feel and how they feel about a thing. You can't, you just can't. Is there's there, but All right. I going get a little deep in the weeds real quick. Just real quick.

Jill: Okay.

Alex: So there's a big difference in terms of marketing, but also in terms of interviews and in terms of, this is even a tactic that's used with, the CIA and the FBI when they're interviewing people is to understand the difference between perspective and perception.

So your perception is everybody has a perception of what they believe is true. Everybody has a perception of what they think about the chamber of what they think about this individual, and it's based on their entire life and what they have formed in their mind about an opinion about them. If you try to change a perception, you'll always fail because it's wired in them.

It's how they see it. Everything is proven in their perception of a thing. It's, that's why it's so difficult right now politically. It's hard,

Jill: right?

Alex: Because people's perception politically is I'm in this zone, right? I don't want to hear this because my life proves that I'm right. So this is

Jill: Right.

Alex: Makes it very difficult.

Jill: Yeah.

Alex: Now perspective, the difference between perception and perspective, which is always bothered me 'cause they both start with P and I get 'em confused sometimes. But perspective is something that is learned. So the only way to change perception is to change their perspective.

And the only way to change a perspective is to tell stories and let them understand what a story. So like you could have had an opinion of something, but then you see a documentary about it. And all of a sudden you get, you learn from their perspective,

What they went through. And now your perception alters and shifts

Jill: and you have to be open to allow that to happen.

Alex: You have to be open and willing to curious enough to talk, watch the documentary.

And I think that's the problem, is that when we approach each other. We're attacking the, perception rather than the perspective. And the only way to do perspective is everybody needs to be curious about other people.

People need to sit there and go, oh, that's a real person. I should maybe listen to them and learn something from them. and when we open ourselves up to that kind of a thing Then all of a sudden we're able to see, oh, I never thought of it that way.

Jill: That's exactly right. I was just gonna tell you a story that,

Alex: Yeah,

Jill: those words came outta my mouth.

We had a city council that, there were five of them on our council. One of them in particular always seemed to be the antagonist and always had the opposite opinion, but in many cases he brought up some very relevant information that I'd never thought of. I'd be sitting in that meeting and go, oh, dang, I never thought of that.

And it makes you start going, crud, okay. If that could be a case, then this could be a case. And then you just have a different mindset as you're. Evolving into where you want to go with your opinion. And so that those words came outta my mouth many times with this particular council person. Oh man, I never thought of that. You can't have all yes people, because then you'll never have that, that opposing side to make you think.

Alex: Yeah, and that's one of the things I love about you, Jill, is that, that's something that you just do naturally. I think that you're open to, to listen. When you say you're listening, you're actually listening.

You're not just waiting for your chance to tell your opinion. You know what, a lot of times people do and that's not even a criticism to people that are like that. that's just how people are. in general. But, but for the most part, you'll learn a lot if you just shut up sometimes and listen and actually really listen.

I, and I have a lot of stories of situations where, I'm impulsive and like I said before, I'm impulsive and sometimes, I get excited about a thing and I just jump right into it. And that's a problem sometimes because I need to stop. I might not have the best idea. I have a very talented team of people that work for me and sometimes I'm jumping in when I should just shut up and let them talk for a change.

And and I think that's something I'm still working on and is trying to learn and, and everything. but in general, I think that there's a lot of situations where I had a friend of mine and he got very angry with me and it blindsided me and I got mad at first. Like, how dare you talk to me like that?

What do you. And then I stopped and I realized I just stopped myself because of how I always talk about this stuff. And I said, you know what? He's a good man.

And if he's yelling at me, maybe I did something. And I deserved to be yelled at. And then I started talking to him from that PO position.

And he's right. I was totally insensitive to something that I didn't realize I was being insensitive to, I wasn't intentional, but I was being insensitive to him. And, I owned that and then we fixed it. We actually improved our friendship, because of,

Jill: because you cared about him as an individual and you realize he's a human. That

Alex: Yeah,

Jill: he's got a different opinion

Alex: uhhuh

Jill: or a different side of his experience, but that's where that civil dialogue comes in.

Alex: Yeah.

Jill: That we're so missing in so many of our conversations in the world today.

Alex: Yes. Yes.

Jill: So anyway, I do, I appreciate that, and you and I have had this conversation many times, and so I, I appreciate your thought process on that.

I would imagine. That there are many situations where you get into at Imagine Where the client comes in and is okay, this is what I want. This is how it's gonna go. How in the heck do you create that honest conversation, and create balance with their ideas, with what you realize or know works and doesn't work?

Alex: I, it, there's a trust thing. It's hard. It's hard sometimes because you're dealing with business owners and business owners naturally have very big egos. And they've been doing things the way they've been doing them for a long time. Yeah. They just hired you, but even though they hired you, there's still a place where they need to earn.

You need to earn their con, their confidence, And, what's interesting sometimes, and usually in the discovery meetings, which I like, the very first discovery meeting, usually we do with a client. Where we're starting to ask all these questions. And a lot of times they stand there with their arms crossed, just looking at you, just going, all right, what?

Okay, smart guy. Let's see what you asked me.

And the way I approach this, which is different than the rest of my staff, is that I don't do any research on the client

Jill: really,

Alex: before I talk to them. Yeah. Because all the research I'm doing was designed by another guy like me, and so it's, it was written and put out there.

So I like to ask questions and learn as I go and 'cause sometimes. It takes me somewhere that I didn't expect to go to. I don't wanna be told where to go. That's just me.

Jill: Yeah. Preconceived notion.

Alex: Yeah. I don't want to have come in and say, oh, I read that you're into this. I'd like to learn it from them, which puts me in an interesting position because, and it's, and it's a very, it's a position that I could only do because of my team.

'Cause I can't do it by myself. It wouldn't be appropriate. we need people in there who have. Informed about everything, which is fine. I just think it's more interesting sometimes to start from ground zero and really see what makes people tick. Because you can walk into a room with your client and learn a lot from them without saying a word, just by seeing all the stuff around them. What they put up. What signs they put up and what they have.

Jill: Yeah.

Alex: And you start really learning about who they are and what they're about. And you sit, I had a client who had a bunch of pictures of Africa. on his wall and you looking at him, you wouldn't, he's not African clearly. But it was a curiosity of him.

During the conversation I used a metaphor that had to do with something that was involved in what he was interested in, and he was engaged by that. Interesting. and there's, I guess it's sometimes it's like a little bit of a Jedi mind trick, but in terms of you ask questions, people will tell you their answers that they think are appropriate.

Sometimes in their answers, you could find something valuable that they didn't even think was valuable, but it's an honest answer to a thing. And then you can take that answer and take a couple of other things you heard, and then what they do for a living, and then meld it together and turn it into a phrase or an idea, or a concept or a strategy, and then deliver it back to them.

And then right there they go, you know what? That makes sense to me. And it's funny because they think that you just came up with that. But what you did is just tell them what they already told you and just handed it back to them. 'cause a lot of this stuff does not come from like the air, It's not like you get an idea and it's like a lightning bolt. That's not how it works,

Jill: right?

Alex: It's my interpretation of hearing you tell your story and then me seeing the value in you and then delivering what I interpret in you back to you. 'cause people love to hear other people's opinion about themselves. And other people's opinion about their business.

And especially when it's not something they've heard all the time. and when you are good at what you do in business, you, it's sometimes it's not just the manner or what it is you do that we want to talk about. It's the manner in which you do the thing that you're, that you do.

That's why one plumber is different from another plumber. They're both plumbers,

Jill: Right

Alex: What we plumb, I dunno what you call it, you plumb. We both plumb, but they're both plumbers. They do the exact same service. they fix things, but the manner in which they do it is different.

And identifying that is more important than saying, I'm better than him because this is what I do. The strategy of saying, find out what the other guy's doing and then we can talk about it. And that way we learn now. 'cause it doesn't matter what they do.

Jill: Yeah.

Alex: You're not gonna change the way you do plumbing.

You, you, there's a manner in which you do plumbing. What's valuable to you and what's important to you. And a lot of times it's, I want a good customer experience. let's talk about what that is. What is the customer experience? You don't want a guy with his, rear end crack showing when he bends over to work on the plumbing.

You want a situation. People wear good uniforms. People go in and they relate, look professional and

Jill: professional. I'm okay to have them in my home.

Alex: And that's what people are thinking of when they're gonna invite somebody in their home. They're thinking of what is it gonna be like? Talk about that. Talk. Talk about those things.

Jill: I find it fascinating as you share this. It's like how the sausage is made, how you create and help them with their branding and their messaging. And I had not only this experience with you, with Imagine when we were creating the, Boulder City logo, the Boulder City Chamber logo, which was a phenomenal process and our board was so impressed with you and the way that this worked, how you were able to get 11 opinions to all work together.

And we found something so phenomenal that I just proud It was a good proud of it. Was it?

Alex: It was a good board though.

Jill: We really did.

Alex: Yeah.

Jill: It was just such a great process. So we got to watch how the sausage was made. And see how that worked. another really, interesting experience for me was LGA.

So Craig Galati and Jason Ian and Alexia Chan, we all sat down and they came out here to the chamber and we were very beginning brainstorming what the Boulder city of Venture Center would look like. I had never done this kind of a process with an architecture firm. This was everyday experience for them.

But here comes all these pieces of paper and markers and crayons and. Things and we just, we designed and thought, and everybody just sketched and threw stuff on paper and we stuck it up on walls. And to watch their little minds going was so incredible to me. I was so excited to be a part of that process.

I knew in my head what I saw this interpretation to be, but to have them listen and get feedback and then draw something, I'm like, yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking. And it was just such a cool thing. And now if you look right outside the door of the studio, there is dirt being turned and the contractor out there making this all happen, that's what LGA did. And watching that process

Alex: Yeah.

Jill: Was phenomenal to me. It was such a cool thing.

Alex: Yeah.

Jill: So knowing how you guys have. Learned how to make your skillset match what the client is looking for is a phenomenal, that's such a, that's a true talent.

Alex: Yeah. Architect architects is a good way to look at that because, I work with a lot of architects and just recently we started, we work with a current architect, locally knit architecture and and talking to them and talking to architects, they're big nerds.

Because when you walk around with architects, and I know Craig very well, LGA very well, all of them.

Jill: Oh yeah.

Alex: We were, we are good friends with, I'm good friends with him. and it's so funny because they're creative, very creative team, and when they walk around, they notice these strange little details in buildings that you never even would've seen or thought of and everything.

But it's really fun. But yeah, the process of them listening and then attaching that. To, just like the Pegasus and the, the Pegasus with a horse and the bird. They have the horse. You're giving them the bird and then they put it together and they turn it into a Pegasus. That's the it's the same thing as they're putting things together that are going to reach and meet your needs. Not an easy thing to do because everybody has a very solid, sometimes people have, don't know what they want and are open-minded and they're just willing to hear what you have to say, and then they evaluate other people.

Think they know exactly what they want, but they really don't. And if they don't see the exact thing that they don't know, they just know they don't like it, and it doesn't hit every button on there. It sometimes it gets a little difficult sometimes. So that where the trust falls in. Like with you and me, we work together for a long time.

You trust me? You know that I have your best interest in mind. You might be a little bit more forgiving in terms of think, okay, let me see. I don't understand what he's talking about. But let me really take some time and really think about it. And then you'll give yourself the time and then you'll see.

Okay. And if you start, a lot of people don't give you that kind of grace. Some people are just, they wanna know right off the bat, boom, where it's right. So it's, that gets a little difficult sometimes. But I do, so here's a trick I did, I learned a while back on with a logo. so if you're designing a logo for somebody, it's very personal.

It's almost like naming their child, right? Because this is a logo for the company. This is going to represent me. This is what I'm putting on my shirts, right? This is what we're putting on everything, and it's very personal. So you sit there and that's a process that's very important and hard for people to go through.

So if you are failing, people telling you what they want doesn't always work. They'll tell you what they want and then when they see it done, they decided that's not what they want. they just don't know. They, but they feel like they have to give you an answer, right? So they give you an answer, but it's not really what they wanted.

So sometimes it gets a little complicated.

Jill: Can't you see that in their face though? Yeah. Because they're almost disappointed and they're like, oh, dang, that didn't hit.

Alex: Yeah, but they rarely admit that you gave them what they wanted. A lot of times they go, no, you just didn't hit it on the head. And then you know that you have to go back to the drawing board a little bit or go at it in a different angle.

But what I found is one thing that works a hundred percent of the time, which is also very interesting, is I know I'm close. I know I'm very close, but they're still not happy. So sometimes I'll bring them in the room and there's client. Maybe I have a client out there that I did this to and this is, this was intentional.

Yeah. I'll bring 'em in the room, have 'em sit next to me, bring up the logo, and then we'll talk about it together.

Jill: Yeah.

Alex: And what happens if the client says, can you make that red? And then I make it red. All of a sudden it's their logo. Because they saw the thing that they wanted happen and it's like a magic trick.

Oh, they go, interesting. Where they go, oh, you need to put a star on there. Okay, you put a star in there. Now it's their logo. Because they it was that star was their idea.

Jill: Yeah.

Alex: And then they liked the logo. Interesting. And you know what, this isn't a hundred percent of the time it works.

Jill: That's great though.

Alex: because you've made it them,

Jill: you've given them buy-in,

Alex: you've given the buy-in.

Jill: Yeah.

Alex: And they've had an actual hand in actually the creation of it. and I think that's all people really want is to. It needs to be me. It needs to be mine.

Jill: Yeah.

Alex: I don't want it to be yours.

I want it to be mine. And so that's it requires trust and it, sometimes you have to find ways to get to give it to them.

Jill: So we have even seen that in this, the program that we started this summer with you going in and visiting with some of the different businesses. They don't have quite trust with you yet, and they're wondering what the heck you're doing in there.

Alex: Yeah.

Jill: And so you're realizing. That, trust level hadn't been built up. And so now we're recrafting how we manage this. And recrafting the process that we go through. And, it'll look a little bit different moving forward because we're realizing that we are, we've been missing that step.

Alex: Yeah. it's funny because one thing that is universally true is their trust in you personally.

It's funny how over the years, your personal brand and the Chambers brand. We're melding them together. There's a, there's a, for some reason, there's a little bit of a disconnect. I don't know if, we have delved into this, but your personal brand is very strong and that's why it helps,

Jill: right

Alex: Because I found when I'm talking to other people and they, I feel that they're not really trusting me. I mention your name and then it, all of a sudden it gets easier because they know you and they trust you. and I'm working for you, and I have the shirt that says, Boulder City on, so there's little things like that are very valuable and I think that it is possible that sometimes people disconnect to these things.

They look at an organization, they don't look at a person. People would much rather look at a person sometimes than an organization. And I think that, that, that's the kicker, is 'cause your values as a person are the values of the chamber,

Jill: right

Alex: There is no de separation and people don't. It's hard for them to get there.

Jill: Yeah. it's hard for them to get there and it's hard for me to remember that. I've got to make sure they understand. the relevance and the value that the chamber name organization and the people behind it are bringing to their business and to this community. Because, for 25 years I've been doing the work and so it, it can sometimes blur those lines.

So I was so grateful to have you and Amy Palmer going out and interviewing and working with the members and understanding a little bit more about a way for us to spotlight them in business. Yeah. But for them to also understand the value that the Chamber, the Boulder City Chamber of Commerce brings to them and their business.

Alex: Yeah. I think that's, and I've said this often about the Boulder City Chamber and the other chambers in town are great, but what I really love about. This Chamber is, I always say this to you, but it always goes back to the beginning of why Chambers existed. And I think that it's important that, a lot of times I ask business owners, do you know what a Chamber does?

Do you know why there's a Chamber of Commerce, why it is relevant? And they think, yeah, it's networking. No, it's not just networking, it's, networking's a part of it. It's good to get to know other members and get to know each other, and that's important. You could create business and everything. But the Chamber is there to protect your business.

The Chamber is there to identify needs, the chamber's there to connect with the city and know where the city is going and what the city is trying to do, and how that's relevant to the, to, it's, they are your advocates. Because the original reason for a chamber of commerce was to protect businesses from the government,

Jill: right?

Alex: Because the government could seize your business. There was nothing that was there that, that would keep them from doing whatever the heck they wanted to, to your business. And the chamber was, you are there to put, to protect you. That's relevant. That's what's happening in Boulder City. that's your priority.

And it's always been your priority. and, and focusing on that. And I think that's the thing that people need to realize. Why do I join the chamber? That's what you do, right? You just join the chamber and you move into a town. No, but what is it you're joining it for? And then.

And then a lot of people to think that, oh, okay, I joined the chamber. That means everything's gonna happen. I'm, I joined the chamber. That means business is gonna start rolling. No, you have to engage with the chamber. You have to actually show up. You have to be informed. You have to hear what they have to say.

Learn, call them if you have a question. That's another thing that I think is important is, and I know this creates more work for you, but it's true, is that a lot of times people are alone running a business. They don't know what to do. They're confused. And they can call you,

Jill: Right

Alex: Hey, Jill, I'm dealing with this thing. I don't know what to do. You have so much experience where you could say, oh, we'll call this person. He'll help you,

Jill: Right

Alex: Or, oh, this has happened just to this other guy and this has, and you have a lot of in information and solutions, and every time I've come to you with a question, personally, you've always had an answer, at least a directive or a direction to, to put me on, to help me get to where I needed to go.

So it, within my membership even, I've been able to utilize you to either give me good direction or even meet somebody I think that might be useful, that might benefit from being part of the Boulder City community, business community and come in and learn a bit from this community, this business community that's so unique and it's interestingly loyal to the city.

Jill: Yes.

Alex: They love the city. And that's what I love about them too, is the fact that they're doing business, but everybody we talk to just loves being like, people that started a business here but didn't live here, moved here.

Jill: That is true. Yeah. Many have done just that.

Alex: They just moved here because they love it. They just love this community.

Jill: I absolutely agree.

Alex: Yeah.

Jill: So it has always been. My goal To be a convener, a champion for those businesses and a connector. And so those three Cs are very, very much what most chambers do. And I wanna strive to live to be able to do that exact same thing here in our chamber.

And so I'm really glad that you're having this opportunity to meet with those individual businesses, to get to know them a little bit more, allow us to spotlight them. Do more of a business promotion for them, but also open their eyes to what the chamber can be to them. You and I are working on a new panel that'll be part of our industry nights that, you'll be the moderator and you'll be interviewing, some of us panelists that will be talking about how to not only have a strong.

Maybe improve business, maybe expand business. And we'll be talking about that and we'll release more information on that in January. But, looking to, making sure that we're providing resources and being the voice of business and, and answering some questions, bringing people together, like-minded individuals that may have some, concerns, needs, suggestions, all of that. Such a great thing. We have a lot of cool things happening right now. I so am grateful for you and the Imagine Communications team.

You have a lot of great people that are behind you, which I'm very grateful and very grateful to your beautiful wife, Deb, for making sure that, You are happy and healthy so that you can get out here. Amazing. She is amazing. I'm

Alex: I'd be, if I didn't have her, I'd be living under a bridge somewhere. I don't know.

Jill: I'm really grateful for her then, because that would be horrible.

Alex: Yeah.

Jill: So I, I just wanna thank you very much and thank you for being available to our businesses as a resource. We know that we're gonna be looking at doing some, potential marketing classes

Alex: Yeah.

Jill: And, marketing podcasts that we'll be putting out there. That'll be like a lunch and learn. As you educate and teach people how to use. The resources and the tools they already have. They just dunno how to formulate that. All right. And so that's something else that will be coming down the pipeline. We're not gonna talk about it today 'cause we're out of time, but

Alex: You already talked about it, so

Jill: we Yeah, we did. And I can just see some really good opportunities for, what we can connect you to those businesses that may need it, because many of them don't think they can afford a communications company and that's not true. You have made it very affordable and very approachable. Thank you very much for who and what you are.

Alex: My pleasure. It's an honor serving in chamber and being part of this community.

Jill: Thank you. I hope you have a wonderful afternoon.

Alex: Thank you.