In this episode of The Best Dam Podcast, Jill sits down with Ned Thomas, the City Manager of Boulder City, to discuss the ongoing community conversations surrounding data centers. Moving past the rumors, Ned pulls back the curtain on the multi-step "gatekeeping" process of land management, the reality of local control versus federal intervention, and what a potential data center could actually mean for the community.

Ned explores the complex nature of modern high-tech infrastructure, highlighting how the city evaluates potential land uses while balancing economic diversification with the protection of Boulder City's historic, small-town character. With a focus on transparent municipal processes, professional due diligence, and strict regulatory standards, Ned provides an insightful look at the dedication required to ensure community assets are maximized for the direct benefit of local residents and utility ratepayers.

DISCUSSION

1. The Multi-Step Gatekeeping Process: Ned emphasizes that a data center is far from a "done deal," explaining that the city's unique Land Management Process requires multiple public hearings before the planning commission and city council just to place the land use on a potential list.
   
   
2. Local Landlord Control vs. Federal Intervention: If a data center is built on city-owned property, Boulder City dictates the parameters, design, and operator; if rejected, the developer has indicated they may move the project to neighboring federal BLM land, stripping the city of local oversight and lease revenue.
   
   
3. The Reality of the Skyler Lease Option: The applicant currently holds a lease option strictly for battery storage and solar on an 88-acre site. To build a data center, they would have to let that option expire and restart a highly competitive public bidding process.
   
   
4. Grid Isolation and Ratepayer Protection: Unlike issues seen in other national markets, the proposed data center would be completely isolated from the local Boulder City power grid, purchasing its power independently from separate transmission sources.
   
   
5. The Financial Benefit of Wheeling Charges: Because the project sits within city utility territory, the city can apply a "wheeling charge" meter to their power transmission, generating revenue that directly funds and benefits local utility ratepayers.
   
   
6. Environmental & Tech Adaptations in the Desert: Ned addresses key environmental anxieties by noting that modern data centers use advanced, water-efficient cooling technologies that differ significantly from older, high-consumption infrastructure.
   
   
7. Lessons from the El Dorado Valley Battery Fire: Following a recent incident, Ned highlights how the city's proactive "tabletop exercises" prepared the fire department, while subsequent debriefs have improved future roadway access and emergency signage.
   
   
8. The November Ballot Question Demystified: Ned clarifies that the upcoming November vote is separate from the current 88-acre Townsite Two discussion; it asks voters whether the city should explore future data center diversification in the distinct El Dorado Valley Transfer Area.
   
   
9. Sanctity of the Conservation Easement: The discussion reinforces that the 87,000-acre multi-species habitat conservation easement remains completely protected and untouched by any future energy or data center developments.

LEARN MORE

• City of Boulder City Official Website: The primary portal for residents to access official data center information, municipal codes, land management maps, and upcoming public hearing agendas. https://www.bcnv.org/1170/Data-Centers
• The Land Management Process: Information regarding the specific regulatory "gates," zoning text amendments, and public bidding procedures required for new land use approvals in Boulder City.
• El Dorado Valley Transfer Area Map: A visual breakdown available via city resources detailing the distinct boundaries between energy zones, the dry lake bed, and the protected desert tortoise conservation easement.
• Supplemental Resource: This resource was created to deepen your knowledge of the Data Center Debate, both nationall, in Nevada, and specificially, in Boulder City - https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/yrwaeiofl3knjtrmc2cvc/Data-Centers-in-Boulder-City-NV.pdf?rlkey=kyy2cvatvc9erf1brfg02h36j&st=7gefy2kq&dl=0

KEYWORDS

Ned Thomas, Boulder City, Data Centers, The Best Dam Podcast, Land Management Process, Local Control, Grid Isolation, Wheeling Charge, El Dorado Valley Transfer Area, Battery Storage, Solar Energy, Bureau of Land Management

#NedThomas #BoulderCity #DataCenters #TheBestDamPodcast #LocalGovernment #LandManagement #UtilityRates #ElDoradoValley

Podcast Transcript

Jill: Listeners, today I have the distinct honor to be able to interview Mr. Ned Thomas, city manager of the city of Boulder City. We are grateful to have him, and thank you for joining us.

Ned: Thank you, Jill. It's a pleasure for me to be here today.

Jill: So we have, been able to kinda watch this last year and see who and what Ned is.

And so you just celebrated your first anniversary, at the city of Boulder City, so what have been some of the highlights that come to mind?

Ned: I have learned pretty quickly that even though Boulder City is a small town, there is a lot going on here all the time. 

Jill: True. 

Ned: Whether it's with the schools or the businesses or, community events, there is always something.

Something for everyone, always something going on. We've had a lot of organiz- a few organizational changes at the city, and that's, typical of any type of organization.

Jill: Right.

Ned: Right after I joined the city, we, needed a new fire chief, so we filled that position, as well as we promoted our longtime community development director, into the position of, deputy city manager that replaced, of course, a longtime administrative, director position. And then we've, and then that set off a domino effect where we had to then fill some positions in the community development department. We also saw the departure of our utilities director, Joe Stubitz.

Ned: And that gave us an opportunity to look at how- both public works and utilities, work very closely together, how that, those functions might be realigned in the city for greater efficiency. So a lot of changes, and those are ongoing. But project-wise,right after I started, we had the long-awaited and long-discussed, reconstruction of Nevada Way through our historic downtown business district.

There was a lot of collaboration that went on between the city and our business owners to make sure that was as-painless as possible. There's always some, some pain when there's some construction going on. But, all in all, I think it went fairly smoothly, and the project turned out very well.

We still have phase two to do, which, I look forward to, some of the bells and whistles- ... where we put in decorative crosswalks and, some additional work that needs to be done, but that's almost finished. We also did, unseen to a lot of people, we did some remodeling work inside our, historic building that houses our police department-

Jill: Oh, I didn't know that

Ned: And the fire station and the municipal court. So they also, all saw some improved, areas inside. of course, we worked with the city council on some regulations around off-leash dog- areas, and that took a while. I really enjoyed working with the folks at the mounted, what became the Southern Nevada Mounted Unit.

They used to be within, the police department.

Jill: Police department. 

Ned: We spun them off as a... Well, we didn't spin them off. they,

Jill: Created their new foundation.

Ned: Correct. 

Jill: Right. 

Ned: Correct. And that's worked out very well. Worked with the folks out at the landfill, and we have a new contract or a revised contract with them for the next few years, as well as, kicked off the construction of Liberty Ridge, long known as Tract 350, and that was, that's a pretty big project for a city that doesn't see a lot of development of that size, and that's underway, and we look forward to having that completed.

Jill: Do we have a, kind of a timeline on that?

Ned: Yeah, it will be completed over the next three to four years- 

Jill: Three to four

Ned: Under, now I could go on and on about- Boulder City's land management, or-

Jill: Growth control

Ned: Growth control-

Where each developer is only allowed up to 30

Jill: 30 

Ned: permits per year. So that, that kinda meters out the amount of development that they can do over time. Then some other work at the airport, and, you know, the list goes on and on.

As I said, lot, lot of things going on at Boulder City, and it's been a great first year.

Jill: Well, we're proud of the first year that you've had. Thank you so much. I know that there are some more exciting things that are coming in the near future. Stay tuned to learn more about the Ram Cam, and I am- Oh that's our exclusive. I'm offering that information right now.

Ned: Jill, I have to tell you- ... the other day, We had a mayor and a council member from another city come to Boulder City, and we had lunch together, and then, they had an economic development person who had never been to Hoover Dam, so took them out to the dam, and then on the way back, we stopped at Hemenway Park to see the rams.

They thought that was the coolest thing they'd ever seen. They were so enamored with Boulder City, and just thought we had the great comm- in fact, their mayor said, "I'm gonna retire and come here and live in Boulder City."

Jill: That's awesome. Deborah March did.

Ned: Oh, that's right. They referred to it as the Boulder City Zoo.

Jill: Oh, wow.

Ned: We have the, ram... They're like, "All of this is free?" And they come down every day, and I say, "Yeah, they're here. Come by any time and, enjoy, the view of the lake" 

Jill: Right

Ned: Which they loved, as well as the rams and-

Jill: I know 

Ned: everything else going on in Boulder City.

Jill: It's a beautiful opportunity, so, lots of positive things, so we really appreciate it.

But, one of the key topics that's being discussed right now is, and it's a hot topic, and so I was really hoping that the chamber could become that, a thought leader, a trust broker, in providing information on both what a data center is, what it looks like, what the different levels are we're talking about, because there are really two different topics going on, as well as making sure that we also have representation from people who have concerns.

And so there'll be two episodes that we'll be releasing, one that gives, the city's perspective, and one that gives some residential concerns perspective. And so we were really grateful that you were here to talk about this, because this is one of those key topics that people need to better understand, they need to educate themselves better on.

And, I know that I myself, if you'll give me the information, if I can find the true facts, if I can look up the data myself, I'm educated enough that I can make an informed decision and then, and move from there. And so I don't want people just to feed me the information. I need to go after it myself and really feel like I have an educated and an informed decision and opinion.

And so that is why we're launching on these two episodes, and why I was really grateful that you were willing to come on, because this is a key important, issue. And so what is your role as the city manager in this arena?

Ned: Oh, thank you, Jill. Data centers have suddenly become a topic in not only locally, but also in the national media.

Jill: True.

Ned: And we read a lot of different stories and about a lot of different, types of data centers, and I appreciate the, as you described, the role as a, not necessarily a mediator, but really helping to move the conversation about data centers forward locally. 

Jill: Right.

Ned: I do believe that there are some unique, perspectives, or unique advantages to having a data center in Boulder City.

However, I wanna make it really clear that I'm not here to advocate for one, as, as a city employee, as the city manager. we're completely neutral on this. However, we do need to look forward, or we need to look for ways to maximize the return that we receive on community assets.

And a lot of times I hear the city this or the city that. Really, this is a community issue, a community project. And so we understand that there are a lot of different perspectives, and I think it's very important in my role that I foster an environment where all of the perspectives and all of the different viewpoints are heard.

Now, that said, I do think that there are, again, some unique advantages that are available to us in Boulder City, and, I think we need to highlight those a little bit again, as you put it, that people, will understand and have the, a full picture of both the disadvantages as well as the advantages for a data center- or any type of land use really in our community. if I might go back just a little bit and describe,how this project or how this proposal really came to be. You know, several years ago, the applicant, Skyler, approached the city and they, to develop some solar and some battery storage on the eighty-eight acres that are now the proposed site for a potential data center.

And they went through a process. They-- at that time, had a project, they proposed a project, and they were selected, and they were able to negotiate a lease with the city. Now, under the process, they... Right now, they have an option to lease the property for battery storage, and what that really means is that gives them some time to further develop their proposal and project.

But they don't, and it's really about the amount of money that they're paying to, have the option to lease the property from the city.

Ned: Right now, they currently pay the city about thirty-nine thousand per year as a, an option for the lease, and there's a time limit. I think it's three years, and it was actually up to expire last year. This is again for battery storage and for solar. And they asked the city to extend that option so that they could have a little more time.

So the council approved that in, in December. So we have a year, and then that they can exercise that option to lease the property at any time. Now, when they actually lease the property and when they're ready to go with their project, the, lease... Then they would pay the full lease rate, which is about a hundred and seventy-five thousand dollars per year.

So that's why we give them a few years under the option so that they're not paying, as much money for them.

Jill: While they're still in the process of trying to figure out what it is they wanna do- Correct ... and if it's going to be-- there's gonna be a return on that investment.

Ned: Correct.

Jill: Okay. Got it.

Ned: Correct. So once they lease the property, their, the value goes up, and they pay the hundred and seventy-five thousand per year. Now, that is based on an appraisal that the city did as part of our due diligence at when we were negotiating the lease with them.

Jill: Okay.

Ned: And in addition to the hundred and seventy-five thousand per year, of course, there's other revenue.

That's just the lease revenue. But When we extended their option, we said, things have changed a little bit," and now we also attach what's called a battery capacity storage charge. It's an, it's another fee that is separate from the lease, and that generates about a hundred... That would potentially generate about a hundred and twenty-eight thousand per year.

Plus there's the revenue that they would pay for their permits, and there's the increased property value. So I go into that just to kind of give an idea of what goes into negotiating a lease- ...

and the time, frame that's involved in this type of development and especially the various steps that a developer would have to go through to get there.

So that was all for battery storage and for solar, which are already approved uses in the area where they're located. Now-

Jill: And on that particular contract.

Ned: On that particular contract. 

Jill: Okay. 

Ned:Yes. Thank you. That's one contract.

Jill: Right.

Ned: Now, as we were talking about extending the option, they said, "Well..." You know, they're business people, so they said, "Well, actually, we have the possibility of developing a data center at this site.

Would you be interested in doing that, or could we do that under the current lease option that we had?" And we said, "Well, we don't know. That's a different type of land use. In Boulder City, we have a process for evaluating different land uses in different areas." "You've already gone through that with the battery storage, but you would have to do that again, essentially start the process over for a data center."

And we got a little bit of pushback on that, but the city was very firm. "No. If you want to do a data center, we have to have a community conversation about that. We don't know if our council and our residents would want to have that type of a use in this area."

Jill: Okay. 

Ned: So you will have to go through the land management process.

The land management process is somewhat unique to Boulder City, and it would... All it does is it puts the land use, data center, on a list that is then a potential use in that area. It doesn't mean a project will be built. It doesn't mean that it has to be built. It's not an agreement. There's no, promise that we would approve that.

It's just a list. But again, the data center is a different land use, so, a new and separate process would be required. I like to think of the process, and again, this goes to my role as city manager, you know, I work with the council, the community, and the staff. So in terms of staff, working with the city attorney, we have to ensure that all of the proper processes are followed and everything is done in a legally and, a legal and very transparent way.

Working with the council, we have to inform them on, what are the advantages and disadvantages of anything that comes before them. And then with the community, we wanna make sure that they have full information so that as they come to our council meeting and as they work with us, that they are in-- fully informed as well.

And that's kind of what we're doing now. What are the advantages and disadvantages of the proposed land use?

Jill: Okay.

Ned: So where we are now then is we have, the applicant is teed up, through the land management process. And that happened a few months ago when the council approved, having this go to the planning commission.

Because part of that land management process is to have public hearing before the planning commission and then another public hearing before the council. And again, that's just to put the land use on a list. I like to think of this as a series of gates, and we're at the first gate. In fact, we're not even at the gate.

We're standing out on the road, looking over the fence, seeing if we wanna just go into the yard. So land management process would open the gate. Again, doesn't make any promises, but it does give us the potential to consider that type of a land use in that area. The next step for this is right now the city does not have any type of policy or regulations relative to data centers.

It's a relatively new land use. We've never had that here before. So this project would need to go through that process, a zoning, ordinance amendment, in this case, a text amendment that would, put into our municipal code all of the regulations around what the data center would look like, how big it would be, how it would operate.

Is it water efficient? Is it energy efficient? All of those things need to be sorted out, and that would be-- that would come after the, the land management process. After the land use has to be put on the list, then we can talk about what it would look like.

But so after the land use is put on a list, then that gives the city an opportunity to get an appraisal on the land. Now, we've done an appraisal for battery storage, and that, that's how we determine the lease rate for that land.

Jill: Right, but now it has to-

Ned: We would have to do that 

Jill: Again.

Ned: We'd have to do that again for-

Jill: Okay

Ned: Data center. Then we would package that together and ask, and put it out for bid. "Okay, companies who build data centers, if you're interested in this property under the parameters that the city has established, please give us your proposals for this type of a project." 

We would get a number of proposals. We would evaluate those, and then we would, We might even do interviews with the different companies, and then we would select one to build the center. And then once that's done, then they would submit for a project, and we would compare that, with what they had proposed and set the lease rate, et cetera.

So again, I just...

Jill: It's a series of gates.

Jill: That's a lot of gates.

Ned: It's a lot of gates, and it's a long process. 

Jill: Okay 

Ned: So I Sorry. I just mention all of that because it's a little frustrating to me when I hear people in the community say, "This is a done deal. This is our..."we are just in the preliminary stages of this conversation, and the process is working exactly as it should.

And I, I wish that the... I guess if, I had my perfect world, the residents of Boulder City would understand the processes, the unique processes that they have in place to evaluate these types of projects.

Jill: So in this particular circumstance, they've got the additional gate of needing to rezone because it was not ever zoned for a data center in the first place.

Ned: Correct.

Jill: But then on top of that, even though they already, are holding onto the lease option and it was intended for battery storage, it will... That will still have to go out to bid even though they hold the lease option?

Ned: Yeah. Thank you. The lease option is for battery storage and solar. It's very specific to that.

And if they, want to move forward with the data center, they would have to let that. Either cancel that option or let it expire.

Jill: Oh.

Ned: And then we would move forward with a new negotiations over a new lease 

Jill: Wow 

Ned: for data center.

Jill: Interesting. I don't know why, but in the back of my mind, I would be, "Okay, let's just go ahead and build the-- what we already have the option for and we already thought was a great idea, and then look someplace else for the idea of, a data center."

But I, obviously, I don't know enough about the energy world.

Ned: Interestingly, this same company is in, discussions with the Federal Bureau of Land Management, which owns land right next to the property that the city owns.

Jill: Okay.

Ned: So if this doesn't move-- And this is very important to understand.

If the data center is not located on land owned by the, city of Boulder City, it could go... I'm not saying it would, but they're, they have indicated that they would move it over to the land owned by the federal government, and the city would not have any control over that. Oh. we may have control over the zoning because it is under the jurisdiction of Boulder City.

It's just, it's owned by the Bureau of Land Management rather than the city. But there's a question around whether our local ordinances would apply to federal land. And then there's always the possibility that the federal government could say, "No, we're," the current administration could say, "No, The data centers are an important part of our national infrastructure that we're going to supersede local, ordinances."

And so the, all indications are that the data center could be built on land inside of Boulder City, but owned by the federal government. Now, that's very important because not only would our community lose the control over how the- ... how the data center is built, what it looks like, how it operates, who operates it.

Under the lease, we get to select who is our partner in developing that land. If it's on federal property, all bets are off. It could go to anyone. But in addition, we lose the ability to lease the land for the revenue that I mentioned. So we're losing both local control as well as, potential lease revenue, significant lease revenue from that land.

Now, I also hear people say, the city is only interested in the money," and that's not true. But I do think that as a community asset, we would be derelict in our duty- ... if we didn't look for the highest and best use of a community asset and the returns it can bring. If there's... and the difference is significant.

The... From a battery storage will bring into the city a little less than a million, or maybe around eight hundred thousand dollars a year. It's really unknown what the data center would bring in- because we haven't put out an RFP or- ... or received, proposals. But we know that there's a lot of demand, and there's a lot of competition.

So it, I think it goes without saying, it would be significant. It could be three or four times what the battery storage will bring. And I know a lot of people will say, "Well, money doesn't matter. This is about principle. We wanna keep our small town character." And all of that is true. It's all...

It's very important to us. But we-- as a city manager, what I'm looking for is the opportunity to at least explore that so that we go into that decision-making process with our eyes wide open. What are we giving up? But then what could we gain, but what, and what are we also giving up in that?

And I think it's really important to have a very full and transparent and open discussion around that. I don't think that anyone, if they were offered a million dollars, would turn around and say, "No, please give it to my neighbor-" without seriously considering what their options are. 

Jill: Well, please give it to my neighbor, but, also, we're still gonna have to see it, have any 

You know, some of these other concerns, the heat, the environmental concerns with, the sound, all of that, it's still literally over an invisible line. We still visually see it. It's still in our true backyard. And so I am grateful that you're at least exploring this. I think that I would be more mad if you hadn't.

If it was just a shutdown kind of thing, I think that I would be more concerned that it was, at an upper level that they didn't give us the option because, I like knowing that you're exploring all the options. I think that's smart. But along that line, okay, so one of the things you just explained was that if it's on Boulder City land, we get to dictate.

We're in the driver's seat. We're not just the enforcer of whatever BLM says we can enforce. It means that we actually can, create and answer to any of the concerns that have been discussed. Like we're hearing through other communities that they've got a horrible issue with water or, noise, or they use too much energy.

Our rates all went up. those are all concerns and things that we're hearing. you're sharing that there is an ability to be in the driver's seat to be smart enough to learn from those lessons and make change for us. But with all of that said and done, with all of that knowledge, what do you see as some concerns that we should be paying attention to?

What are some other impacts regarding data centers that we should be aware of? Obviously, like you said, your job is to inform council of both the pros and the cons. And so I would imagine you've got quite a list going. So can you share with us what some of those concerns would be?

Ned: I'm a firm believer in the saying about necessity is the mother of invention.

And as I look at the conversation going on around the country about data centers, it seems twenty years ago, fifteen years ago, even though-- even five years ago, the technology was very different, and the way that data centers operated and were built was very different. And so what I'm hearing from this applicant, and I'm no expert on data centers by any means.

I'm learning along with everybody else. But what I'm hearing from this applicant is that they're willing to hear the concerns and address those to the best of their ability. When I talk about necessity being the mother of invention.

Putting a data center in the desert, to me, is a very different proposition than putting it somewhere where they have plenty of water, for example.

So here they're going to have to adapt, as I believe that they have. There's a number of successful data centers over in the Las Vegas Valley that some of them, like Switch, are very, very large and very apparent. But there are other smaller ones throughout the valley that, we never hear any problems about with noise or sound or heat.

And here in Boulder City, one of the things that's unique is that our settled area is in a very, in, in a very small, distinct, geographical area. That's our city town site. This will be built in an area that was designated years ago for, solar and other types of renewable energy.

Now, data center is a different animal.

But in a way, we have prepared for that. So if the data center is able to go in that area, in a way, that's a mitigating factor because it's away from where people are living.

Jill: Right

Ned: And again, I do believe that the technology and the way that the data centers are built, it has reduced the sound, it has reduced, the noise that they make.

And the, the applicant here is telling us that they're going to use a newer technology for cooling, and they have gone to great lengths and great expense to work, to, have their electrical and their power connection completely separate from the Boulder City grid. And what we've seen in-- or what-- from what I've read, what we've seen in other communities is it's part of the same grid, and so it's had an, a negative effect on the ratepayers within that community. Here, it will be completely separate, so it would. And they would buy their power separately. However, there is a hidden benefit in that, and I think this is something that gets overlooked too. They're still within the territory of Boulder City's utility, and what that means is that we can add a meter to their power, and there's something called a wheeling charge, and that would be additional revenue that would come into the city.

That revenue would go into our utility fund for the direct benefit of our utility ratepayers. I would even go so far as to say that in the negotiation with for Elise, we could build into that some type of a fund that would go to directly benefit, our ratepayers, our residents, and our businesses in Boulder City.

I don't know exactly what that would look like, but it is within the realm of possibility, and it is something that we would definitely want to look at. On the land use side, we often refer to that as a community benefit. And if these data centers we are going to generate a lot of revenue, that's something that we would wanna look at and propose to our council that we, ask for from this developer or any developer of a data center.

What are you willing to give back to our community that would be a direct benefit to our residents?

Jill: Okay, and that goes back to the point that if it was in our area, you have the ability to dictate and control exactly what that looks like. That's a totally different story. let me go back and better understand.

So you're sharing that their direct connection is, down in the valley. It has not-- it is not doing anything. They're using power, they're buying power, they're-- All of that is not, coming from Boulder City. It's not gonna take away from Boulder City. It's going to be part of that Mead station, and they're gonna be purchasing their power from other sources.

But here’s a question that I have been hearing. So does them purchasing on that market, does that take away any of our purchase power agreements or our ability to, potentially have to buy any of that power too? Will th-- will we be competing with them? So will that cause any kind of a problem for us?

Ned: It's a very good question. my understanding is the city has long-term power purchase agreements, with various entities. We're always out looking for the best deal that we can get so that we have a variety of sources for our, power.

Jill: Okay.

Ned: Now, much of our power, of course, comes from Hoover Dam, and it runs through the Mead's, substation.

We've also had purchase agreements, from Arizona Power. As we are negotiating battery storage agreements, sometimes those lease agreements will include the opportunity or the option for the city to buy from those 

Jill: Oh Interesting.

Ned: That could be part of the lease agreement with the data center as well.

So we're open to any opportunity, but the point is, because we have our long-term power purchase agreements in place, anything that the data center might do would be completely separate from that.

Jill: Yeah.

Ned: Yes, you're correct that they-- we would be competing with them in a way, but ours are already locked in and, they would have to go out and buy on the open market as well.

The really-- the only, overlap or connection, if you will, is that they would be plugging their power into the Mead substation the same as ours, but it would be a completely different power source, power purchasing, as well as transmission.

Jill: Okay. Yeah, 'cause that was something that we were hearing quite a bit of conversation about is,will they raise our rates?

Will the water rates have to go up? Will we run out of water? The noise, the, the heat island concept that it adds a greater heat, concern for the environment. There just-- there's quite a long list. And so I am glad that you are sharing some of this information that's helping me better understand.

It sounds to me like electricity is not as scary as it once was or as it has been pictured, because they aren't gonna be utilizing our services other than the connection, and we get benefit from that.

Ned: Correct. There's one other interesting wrinkle here too is, so I mentioned that we have an existing they have an existing lease option with the city to-- for battery storage and solar.

They also were working with, SNWA, the Southern Nevada Water Authority, which also does power lines. And so SNWA was putting in a power line near this site, and the applicant worked with SNWA to tap into their transmission line. That's how the 

Jill: Oh 

Ned: the power would be transmitted from the Mead substation to this site.

That transmission line and their... My understanding is that their current agreement with SNWA is for power for battery storage and solar, not for a data center. So yet another gate or another hurdle. That they would have to jump over is that they would have to if they are successful in, having approval of a data center, then they would have to renegotiate their, agreement. It's my understanding they would renegotiate their agreement with SNWA for a different type of power along the same lines.

Jill: So we could get through this entire process, council could have eventually, all the gates could be shut on the Boulder city side, and SNWA could technically shut that door and say, "No, we're not gonna provide

Ned: That's a potential hurdle for them to pass on.

Jill: Wow 

Jill: Wow, these guys are really putting it on the line. I don't know, it sounds a little scary.

Ned: Well, and I and this is another thing, in some of the presentation that, that I have seen, they have spent a significant amount of money, millions of dollars, toward developing the data center, and I think that gets mistranslated into, oh, this is a done deal because they're already investing in this project.

But I've made it very clear to them, and I've made it very clear to the community, I hope, that all of that investment was done at their own risk.

They know that they do not have a lease agreement with the city to build a data center on that site.

Jill: Okay.

Ned: They have an option to lease the property for battery storage, and we would be happy to see them move forward with that, and but we're also happy to entertain this community conversation about the pros and the cons of a data center.

Jill: Well, so this actually opens up some questions for me. we had the fire at the battery storage. So is battery storage dangerous? Should we be talking about that? Is that something that we should be notified and understand more of? Should we educate ourselves on what battery storage does and its dangers?

Ned: Yeah. So we recently had some on other sites within the El Dorado Valley that were designated years ago for potential solar development or battery storage development. we recently reviewed a number of proposals under a different, request for proposals for those types of developments.

Jill: Every one of those developments included a section on, fire suppression or emergency response, and, some were better than others. And but they, they're all aware that they need to either provide we're in the desert. They either need to provide water on site. 

Jill: Yeah. 

Ned: Some of them proposed tanks of certain sizes.

Ned: Some of those, some of them, offered, payments to the city or a fee to the city for, fire, safety. And so we look it's a very important issue that we- 

Jill: Yeah 

Ned: Always look at and that we always build into the lease.

Jill: Okay.

Ned: Our fire department is actively involved in reviewing those, any of those projects.

And yeah, the recent fire that we had, one of the things that saved us is that there's It was close enough into the city that it actually had a fire hydrant available there. But there were lessons learned. For example, it developed a lot of smoke, and there wasn't the roadways to get into where the batteries are, were not well known.

Oh. And as we develop more, the newer ones are 

Jill: The debrief after

Ned: But yeah, the debrief, the lessons learned. There are always lessons learned that we'll have signage and that we will have, be prepared. Now, we were very fortunate. This, just a few months before that, incident occurred, that the city had done what's called a tabletop exercise to run through a scenario where our fire department is responding to that type of an emergency. So they were fully prepared to take care of the fire. And one thing Interesting that's really interesting is these, the batteries themselves, again, no expert on battery, its, energy storage, but one thing I found interesting is that when they were there, they were not putting the water directly on where the fire was. They were actually they created, like a curtain wall of fire to keep it from spreading to the other batteries. But when the batteries, burn, they, I guess because of the chemical- makeup or however the batteries operate, the, they just have to burn themselves out.

Jill: Oh.

Ned: And so all of this is known. Again, the technology is changing and improving, every year. And so we would fully expect that any of the newer battery storage that goes in would have, would be a more developed, would be designed for better safety.

Jill: I'm glad to know all of that, and I'm glad to know that there's forethought going into that.

But I just, I don't foresee that we're gonna be changing our daily habits to no longer need energy or no longer need computers, AI or all of that stuff. And I think we need to be educating ourselves on the best route and managing this the best way that we can and within our control.

I think that really

Ned: Yeah 

Jill: that has opened my eyes a little bit to the fact that, you know, on this invisible line, we have control, and on this side, we don't, and that makes me very nervous. And,I think it's very interesting, and we learned this, a lot when we were talking about the I-eleven and the interchange at that time.

I have always had in the back of my mind that Boulder City owns from mountaintop to mountaintop and everything in between. And so you think everywhere you look that it's all owned by Boulder City, and we have control of all this area. And it has been educational for me to look at some of the maps and realize that's not necessarily the case.

And, if we feel like we don't want this, close to our backyard, it might be smart for us to pay attention to what does that look like, though, when it is Henderson property or BLM or that, I think that a component to all of this that has really changed the way I'm thinking about how we proceed and where we go with this.

Ned: Yeah. This is a very interesting, aspect of this discussion around data centers, and I'll be a little bit philosophical about this. But Boulder City has always been separate and distinct, part of certainly part of Southern Nevada, but separate and distinct. We're over here We're over the hill.

We're over here close to the lake, and we're we don't often have to deal with the, any issue land use issues with our immediate neighbor to the west, Henderson. However, in the there's a small portion of that El Dorado Valley as you come over the hill, and you're there by the, Railroad Pass Casino, and then there's a new, convenience store and gas station there.

Travel center. All of that, the convenience and the gas sta- that's all in Henderson. And there's a smaller portion up, right up against the hills, that is under the jurisdiction of Henderson. and so some of that area, we're aware, has been designated for either, warehouse and storage and distribution.

Some of that might be designated for a data center. the only reason that hasn't my understanding is the only reason that hasn't been built out yet is that they haven't extended services over the hill, meaning utility services.

NV Energy hasn't extended their, power lines over there. But when they do, then that area will begin to develop as well. And you're exactly right, Jill. There the Boulder City will not have any control, land use control over those areas. And if, again, if the data centers are built there, I'm sure that, the City of Henderson will have zoning in place that will dictate how those look and and how they operate.

But it would be out of our control. 

Jill: Yeah. 

Ned: And that you're exactly right. To me, that is a very important aspect of this whole conversation, is what say do the residents of Boulder City wanna have in what's built over there?

It's very easy to just say, "No, we don't want anything." But if it's going to happen.

Right across the invisible line in Henderson or on And much of that is privately owned property and h- it's not owned by the City of Henderson, so they don't really. The only control that they have is over regulatory, zoning regulations. But Boulder City, again, is unique in that we both regulate through zoning, but we also control, absolutely control as the landowner as the landlord of whatever gets built there. And I, I will keep coming back to this. As the landlord, it's a community asset, and we wanna ensure that it is developed to the highest and best use for the benefit of our residents

Jill: So I appreciate that. And I think I want to help I had to, in doing my research on getting ready to do these interviews, I had to really look at this as two independent concepts.

We've got the conversation that we just spent a lot of time talking about that is more specific to Schuyler and Townsite Two, and the idea of what they want to do with the modification of a lease option that they hold currently. That's all happening, and that's all part of the discussion that's going on right now.

But previous to that becoming public or, me becoming aware of it, there had already been discussion by council to find out what the citizens wanted with future lease options in the El Dorado Valley in terms of needing to diversify the solar leases, and what does that look like? And throwing the option out there of future data centers further in the El Dorado transfer area, so further from Townsite, where we're talking immediately.

And a secondary concept is what do we want in the future out there? It's becoming kind of m-marshmallow-ish in my head. It's all blending together. But I really am, I'm trying to better understand. So in November, the idea is we will vote. In fact, I actually had to pull up the ballot question so I could better understand what we're voting on.

And so that is in November on future, what we utilize and what the council has directed for future use of the El Dorado transfer area. I think number one, that needs to be defined. What the heck is that? What does that mean? Does that mean all of the dry lake bed, or does it mean more or less? And then, and then trying to keep this separated, this would be independent of this current conversation.

I kinda am interested to hear are there other options for diversification out in that area? So yes, we know solar may not be the currently, in this day and age or in the future, the best and highest use. So are there other options for diversification so that we don't have to just look at the data center concept?

Because if this truly is of concern and people have all these other issues that they don't see this as being a positive, what other things could we do for that El Dorado transfer area? So maybe explain that to me and, to the audience so that people understand that area better, and then the idea that this ballot question is giving direction to the council as what to do with that area in the future.

Ned: Yeah, this is a very important distinction to make as, as well. Yeah, and we've been talking mostly about Townsite Two and the area that's immediately around what most people Boulder City proper. But, yes, there's this other question about what happens in the El Dorado Valley Transfer Area.

And I think there's, maybe some. So if we could go back and maybe talk about that a little bit. So the El Dorado Valley Transfer Area, we have to go clear back to really nineteen ninety-five when the city purchased this area for about one point three million dollars. They purchased an enormous area, from the federal government, and it's the Transfer Area. 

And it's, quite limited in the types of uses that can be put there. In fact, there's yet another list of uses that can go into the Transfer Area, very limited. A great deal of that, see, a large portion of the transfer area is actually set aside for tortoise easement or we'll call it a nature easement, conservation easement, and that's about eighty-seven thousand acres.

Most of the land that you see immediately south of Boulder City is part of that, conservation easement area, and it's, patrolled by the county, and it's set aside for primarily for tortoise but for other, for other species as well. Now, there are, other uses. So there's in addition to that eighty-seven thousand acres, there's about eleven thousand acres that are available for, we'll just lump it into a term energy development, and that's where you've seen a lot of the so early on, Boulder City was really a leader in large-scale solar development.

And here, the city's role is that we are the landowner, and we lease the land. We negotiate, we receive proposals and negotiate leases with different companies, and we don't dictate who they sell their energy to or how they build their projects, but-

Jill: Right

Ned: We just receive the payments for the lease on the land.

So a lot of the energy that is developed there is sold, primarily to either NV Energy-- or three primary customers, NV Energy, San Diego Gas & Electric, and Pacific Gas & Electric in California. Then there's about fourteen hundred acres that are the dry lakebed, and then there's, some other areas that are just set aside as recreation land.

But if you can picture in your mind, this is what the way I look at it is everybody knows where the dry lakebed is. Pretty much the conservation area is everything to the east of the lakebed over to the mountains and down to the Nelson Road, and then everything south of the lakebed is, is not all of it, but it that's primarily where the area for the where you see the

Jill: Like the energy zone

Ned: Renewable energy development.

Jill: Yeah.

Ned: So now, as we talk about Town Site Two and the data center, i-if that were to move forward, that in no way, shape, or form opens the floodgate for data centers in other areas of the city. It's really, specific to that eighty-eight acres. And and it wasn't really it wasn't related at, at all, but it just was circumstance.

At the same time, there, there is a, one of the solar developments, early solar developments down in the El Dorado Valley, they're going to decommission their solar. It's now obsolete. Their lease isn't ending, but they're going to decommission their plant, and they were looking at other uses for the property.

And, just one day they were visiting and they said, "Well, how does the city feel about data centers?" They said, we don't know. We have this other project up in this other area of the city, but that would be a question we would have to put before our voters."

And so from that conversation came the ballot question

Jill: Oh, interesting

Ned: About in the future, is this something that the city would want to consider in this area as well? But as I mentioned, under the agreement,in which the city purchased that property from the federal government, there were a very, limited number of uses there. Again, public recreation, the conservation preserve, solar energy facilities, and then there's other thing like roads and easements and transmission lines and rights of way, communication towers.

Those were the original ones, and then over the years, we've taken to the voters other types. Like when we, started to have battery storage as a new use, that went to the voters a number of years ago and it was approved. Okay, we can do battery storage there too. At one time, a motocross track was approved.

Jill: Yes

Ned: And it was never built. People remember that. Wind towers, there was a geothermal energy collection was, so all of those have been added to the list. Not, again, not all of them have been built because it putting a land use on the list doesn't mean that it's going to go forward.

But it just means that it's a possibility that the city might want to consider.

Now, if, similar to what we were talking about earlier, if a data center was going to go forward in the El Dorado Valley, if, say, in November, if the voters said, "Yes, this is something that we will add to the list," the city would have to develop Regulations and a policy and parameters.

Jill: Yeah.

Ned: Like we might limit the number of data centers.

Maybe they... The size of the data center or the acreage that it can occur or how it's operated or maybe, this seems like a funny comparison, but I, my understanding is Boulder City is limited. I think we can only have three bars in Boulder City.

Jill: Taverns.

Ned: Taverns.

Jill: Yeah.

Ned: So maybe we'd do something like that.

We will allow it. we'd allow a data center, but maybe we would only allow two small data centers or three or five, and they would have to be two miles apart or five miles apart. So there, there's different ways of regulating that. But we haven't even gotten to that conversation and really can't until, the voters would indicate whether or not that's even something that they would want to consider in that area.

Jill: I was also glad to know because, there was some concern about the conservation easement and, in the ballot question it clearly states, should it be within the El Dorado Valley Transfer area outside of the multi-species habitat conservation easement.

Ned: Yeah, that easement is sacrosanct.

This could be a whole other podcast about 

Jill: I agree ...

Ned: that, that easement is very important, not necessarily to Boulder City because we have growth control. It was vitally important to the Las Vegas Valley. That having that, my understanding is having that easement in place allowed the valley to grow the way that it has

because without having those credits, they would not have been able to, develop it was in the 1980s, there was a moratorium on development because they ran out of Credits under the, Endangered Species Act.

Jill: I know, and I am always grateful to refer back to, many people state that Boulder City is a taking city and not a giving city when it comes to consolidated tax and all those other things.

And I, want to make sure everybody really understands. Do you get what the conservation easement does for you?

Ned: Yeah. Our response to any comment like that is always, "Let me tell you about the eighty-seven thousand acres that we purchased and put under conservation easement and contributed that those credits to the Las Vegas Valley so that you could continue- to grow."

Jill: Yeah, I love that little tidbit of knowledge. Thank you for sharing a little bit more about that. as we talk a little bit more about the ballot question, again, this is independent of what's currently being discussed, and we'll so will you tell me where we're at in the gatekeeping of Townsite before I lose my train of thought.

So right now, has it gone to Planning Commission yet?

Ned: Yeah. It will go to the Planning Commission tonight. 

Jill: Oh Sorry

Ned: On the day of this podcast, so on, on Wednesday, what is it? May the twenty-

Jill: Twenty 

Ned: twentieth, it will go before the Planning Commission. So

Jill: Okay 

Ned: In this case, so we're under the land management process, and we have to keep in mind that this is not regulatory.

This all about the land lease. is data center a land use that we wanna add to our list of potential uses within certain areas of the city? 

And so it's about the land lease. So we're right again, we're standing out on the street, looking over the fence into the yard. do we wanna open this first gate and possibly go into the yard. 

And so

Jill: And then it will go to the next step. Yeah.

Ned: So yeah, and the, it's important too to note that the Planning Commission is making a recommendation to the council. So all of this is about having a transparent process, about having a community conversation about land use, and it's very unique to Boulder City.

And again, I wish that, we could understand and appreciate it and have a clearer understanding. we don't use it as well have a clear understanding of how it works. So once the planning commission makes a recommendation to council, then at some point in the future, the council will make will take that recommendation as well as additional input from the community and make a decision about adding the land use to a list.

Again, not approving any project 

Jill: Yeah 

Ned: or any lease or any agreement, it's just adding it to the list. And, that would then open up the opportunity for us to look at a zoning ordinance amendment or to look at, it would give us the opportunity to appraise the land for a data center and then circulate a request for proposals and then see what comes up.

So it's hard now to speculate what those proposals might bring, and it's a little bit unfortunate. We appreciate that Townsite 2 has come forward with a fairly specific proposal of what they would build, but, I think it's a misunderstanding that is the project that would move forward.

Again, it would go through a proposal process and compete with others for the privilege, really, of developing on our Boulder city land for the benefit of our residents.

Jill: I never understood that. I did not even realize that was a thing. They're putting a whole heck of a lot into this to not have any assurances and guarantees, right?

Ned: Now, there is something, referred to as an economic development exception, and, I believe that a someone who's pursuing a lease can request this type of exception, and it's for a service or a type of business that the city, That provides services or benefits to the city that the city can't offer itself.

And, interestingly, Townsite Two was able to get to use that economic development exception. They requested it for the battery storage and solar on the site that we're talking, the eighty-eight acres.

Jill: Oh, really?

We're talking about.

Jill: Okay.

Ned: And so they would like to use that economic development exception again for data center if it's able to go forward under the land management process. But given the community conversation that we're having now. 

I see that as highly unlikely- Yeah ... that we would entertain that.

And that's

Jill: I think that would be a

Ned: Yeah 

Jill: Bad move.

Ned: Completely up to the discretion of the council to do that.

Jill: So I appreciate all your time and, trying to explain this better. And as I'm hearing this now, it actually sounds to me like the Townsite conversation could be could come way after the vote in November.

By the time all of the, all the things have to be noticed for different meetings and all the public hearings and, recommendations and amendment changes, when all of that's said and done, you're still talking about maybe end of the year, first of next year, right? So that could even be after the vote in November.

Ned: Correct. And keep in mind that the current Lease option expires on December thirty-first for the battery storage and solar. So I'm almost certain that Townsite Two would ask for another extension, but I'm not sure that we would entertain that. It's too early to tell.

Jill: Yeah.

Ned: But, they're-- the clock is ticking for them.

I will say, though, that we we'll go back to where we started. We want to educate ourselves better. This is a new type of land use. it's somewhat controversial. It's in the national conversation as well as here locally. And again, this comes back to my role as the city manager, is that I feel that we need to inform our council and the community more about data center.

Not what it looks like nationally and some of the issues that we've seen in other areas, but what does it look like for Boulder City? And we need to fully understand those pros and cons. And that's part of the conversation that we have now. But one of the things that we're working on, at the city is to have a presentation to our council about data centers, just so that we can understand the whole issue better, and that will give yet another opportunity for the community to weigh in.

We certainly don't want to jump into this without fully understanding where we're going.

and it is quite new. but at the same time, we do have a process that we need to follow, and we do need to give, our anyone who comes forward with an application, we need to give them their due process rights that we're gonna move forward with their application.

But, we wanna do that as carefully and as deliberately as possible.

Jill: I think I feel better about the assurance that there are so many gates, there are so many more, public hearings, there are many more opportunities for people to become educated, understand it better, ask questions, of all the right people, and, allow us to still have a voice.

Because that was one of the things we were hearing was, "Oh, they're gonna go ahead and do this, and they're not gonna even care what we vote." people weren't understanding that the vote is for something futuristic that's happening further into the transfer area, and I think that distinction becomes very important.

And then the understanding that there is an assurance that people have, mu-many more opportunities to learn more, ask questions, and have their voice heard now and then. So it's both. people saying that their voice was taken away, I'm not seeing that. I feel like they've been given more opportunity because of the process that was already in place many years ago, so we're following the right steps, and, it's my job to better understand where we're at so that when I do get to vote in November, I'm doing it from an educated perspective.

Ned: Yeah, you're absolutely right. We're very fortunate in Boulder City that we have these processes in place, and they have worked very well for us in the and they're working for us now. It you're absolutely right. That process, it The land management process was put in place to have a transparent community conversation around different types of land uses, and that is the conversation that we're having right now.

No one's voice has been taken away. In fact, this is the opportunity to let your voice be heard.

Jill: Heard.

Ned: Now, I do see a I'll be honest, I do see a lot of misinformation out there, or I would even call it misapplied examples of in other communities. Really, the conversation that we should be having here in Boulder City is: What does this look like for us locally?

What is our best avenue toward local control or local management of any type of land use that we put out? But certainly one like a data center. What gives us maximum oversight over, a proposed project or land use?

And then what and then that that's on the regulatory side, but then coming back to our key role as the land owner, what gives us the maximum benefit for our community and for our residents?

That's what we're trying to achieve here through this conversation. And ultimately, if it ends up that it's something that the residents don't wanna move forward with, that is what the land management process is set up to do, is to clarify that position, and that's the conversation that we're having now.

Jill: I'm glad my voice can be heard, so thank you very much for that. Thank you for, being on today and helping us better understand it. I definitely have a little bit of a clearer picture. I, have had quite a few questions answered. thank you. I hope that our listeners are able to draw a little bit from this and, I know that you, are very accessible, and so if they have further questions, I'm sure that they can contact the city or check out.

On the city's website, I did go to the city's website and look up the data center information, so thank you for the detail on that. And, I would imagine that there'll be a lot more discussions coming up, but, we hope people will be able to hear the pros and the cons and hear it from different voices and then make their, own educated guess or opinion or 'cause it is a guess sometimes.

Ned: Yeah. So, Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today, Jill. It's always a pleasure. And again, I'm not a, an expert on data centers. I do know a little bit about land use, having spent most of my career in that. But this is a new animal, and it's something that we all need to better understand and get our hands around and we appreciate the opportunity to speak today.

Jill: All right. Well, thank you for being here.